[thepumpguysc]

+ those tractors weren't known for staying together much long after a head job..
The bottom end usually ends up spinning a bearing..
Do yourself a favor & measure the head gasket where it hasn't been torqued/smashed, & make sure the replacement is roughly the same thickness..
Are U supplying the head set or the machine shop.??
Call & ask them about valve stem seals.. see if they're putting them in/on..

 

[Dmfoste1]

Yes, they have done these engines/heads in the past. Been in business for 50 years or so, same location. I am getting parts for them, and every block has "things" that are unique to them. This being said, it's a new learning to me. I don't know much about these blocks and I sure don't want it to go down when I am in the middle of a job, of course I don't want to break the bank getting the tractor running either. A spun bearing is definitely not a fun task to recover from. Especially being this far in. I'll know more once I get the tractor split and oil pan off. Thanks for the info thepumpguysc. Definitely seems like the best path to take.

 

[Dmfoste1]

Finally got around to pulling the FEL off of the tractor. I understand why no one else has posted their steps in doing this task. I also have a new respect for anyone who has done this work. One doesn't realize what's involved until they are doing it themselves. I tried to capture thevsteps iItook as I did this job but may have forgotten a step or two since I was more focused on getting the FEL off. Manuals are nice but are no substitute for knowledge of actually doing, now I know. So here it goes .. removing the FEL from my for 4500. I had a few buckets ready for catching all of the oil from the loader, someone said 10gallons.. there's a lot of it!!!

*NOTE* This is not a procedure, but more of a how I did it and will not be held liable by anyone following my example.

Removed drain plug from left inside of frame. 1/2" square drive.
Removed crossover tube, which connects both sides of frame (total 4 hose clamps)
Removed downspout hose from fill unit of front left sides of tractor (2 hose clamps)
Removed hydraulic fittings under right side step and label (tape/marker) to go back on as they came off.
Removed hydraulic lines with crossover near steering wheel down shaft. I removed the entire hydraulic system as in unit disconnecting from cylinders and taking the entire unit out as one (heavy). On right side, the 'feed' line from pump will continue to leak past the hydraulic pump until the front tank is empty. I kept a small bucket there. Removed backhoe swing clamp on right side. Removed steps on left and right side and flip both brakes backwards towards rear axle. When I eventually tried rolling it backwards the brakes were causing resistance enough, where I couldn't move tractor.
Removed the elephant ear fenders.
Placed loader bucket flat, with 4x4x8' underneath, with a few hundred pound of weight in it so it so it won't shift on me. I used block. I used 4x4x8 so I could drag the bucket forward with less resistance, if needed. Placed jack stands under loader arms for safety. Removed u-bolts from rear axle. Removed front bolts from loader frame
The pads for rear u-bolts were too wide, so I had to use a chain and binder to bring them closer so they wouldn't hit the inner sides of the rear tires. They were still very close!! Removed all jack stands once I was clear of being underneath. There are 2 points (left and right) on rear of top of loader frame that rise up about 4" that need to clear as rear axle travels over the loaded frame. The front portion of loader frame will traveled over the front axle. Moved tractor backwards from loader. Removed binders, once rear u-bolts pads were clear so rear portion of loader frame can move upwards. When the pads were at the front tires they were close again, but cleared with 1/2" on each side once the front wheels were perfectly straight. Set up a couple of jack stands to "catch" the loader frame when they were coming off of the front axle.

Removing the FEL is not a task for the faint hearted. It was manually done with a floor jack on flat concrete, alot of big wrenches, cheater bars, and PB blaster. Finally, I got it off.... I think I'm not going to like it when I have to put it back together and line up the holes.

 

[thepumpguysc]

WOW.. Impressive.. You'll have a fine runnin machine when she's all done..
Keep us posted.. & for Gods Sake, don't hurt yourself..

 

[Dmfoste1]

Working in garage today, spliting tractor and pulling engine. I just had to stop working and post. The front "hood" Is one heavy hunk of metal. I'm pretty sure others know, but wanted to inform those who didn't. Guessing it weighs 200lbs. I used my hydraulic table to get it off, then wrestled to floor.

 

[Dmfoste1]

Previous owner must have lived in a colded climate than AZ. I see they used a dirt and oil on radiator to prevent the air to get through the fins, allowing the diesel to heat up quicker.

 

[Dmfoste1]

Got the 4500 split today and pulled the engine.

as soon as it was split I found TDC by looking at the timing gear ahead of the injectors pump. Thanks again thepumpguysc. Marked it with at piece of tape and marker so others could reference if if needed.

Tiny little dimple that was covered by old oil. The flywheel came off easy, bolts were not very tight. The flywheel itself without pressure plate/clutch must have weighed about 100lbs!! Once I started separating the block from trans water started dripping from it on one sideside found a cavity that had rust build up in it, similar to the Tstat housing I showed a picture of.

I have no idea why it had water there. Any thoughts?
I then needed an engine stand for the engine, found one via Craigslist and got it home to find out the top mounting holes were too small for the threaded bolts that go into the engine. I can't drill them out because there wouldn't be enough meat left on the supporting arms. So I am thinking of mounting it like this.

Then putting another 1/4" or 5/16" plate from the upper arms to the top bolt holes. I can make the plate fairly easily. I think that would help when flipping the engine upside-down to pull crank, pistons, etc. Does anyone know the weight of a short block?

 

[Dmfoste1]

Forgot to mention. I found the shims I read about on the lowest bolts (engine oil pan to front end) when separating the two. Thankfully I was working in clean concrete and not in the yard. I might have missed them when they dropped out. (Shims are sitting on front end next to hole with a quarter for size reference, bottom right hole.)

 

[Dmfoste1]

Had a brilliant idea last night before bed. Grabbed some 3/4x1 1/2 stock and made my own arms to support engine on the stand. They accept the 3/4" bolt to go to the back of the head. Went with 1 1/4" longer than stock size.

I got the engine bolted on stand and started to disassemble, couple of the main caps are not wanting to come out, but I did get the pistons/rods out. Check out the far right piston rings.

 

[Dmfoste1]

Next I took off the timing cover. The dimples on the gears didn't match up and thought simewhaere in it's life it skipped a tooth. I proceeded to cycle it through and all 3 dimples lined up. It takes 47 revolutions of the cam to get it to line up again. Coincidentally, there are 47 teeth on center gear. I marked with a paint pen so I could share with others. IP on gear is injector pump.

 

[Dmfoste1]

I got the news from machine shop today. the block needs to be bored .040 over and crank is standard on rods and main.

 

[thepumpguysc]

That's GOOD AND BAD news.. I think the cost of a new/different crank, outweighs the cost of a "bored over" cylinder.. I think u got out pretty good..
Care to share the cost breakdown.??
Are u having the machine shop build it back up.??
"Sometimes" its a lot cheaper in the long run because it would come w/ a warranty..

 

[Dmfoste1]

I'm not ready to share the cost just yet, still waiting for a grand total... Hoping it's not too GRAND. Looking at prices online for rebuilt ones was a real eye-opener. I don't know why others would pay that sort of money to buy one rebuilt when parts are relatively inexpensive... If you have the know-how. When I get done I know the engine should last for another 40-50 years providing it's taken care of. Throughout this teardown I'm beginning to believe that this tractor took a swimming lesson somewhere in it's lifetime due to the amount of water I have found where it shouldn't be.... And the piston and rings that were demolished could maybe explain a hydrolocked cylinder (speculation). Looking at the pics and description of what I have found, what do you guys think?

 

[FredM]

don't forget the oil pump, pull it apart and take measurements to satisfy yourself that the pump will do the job, I can remember a time when one of my mates who was a mechanic and with his father run an overnight transport business, my mate rebuilt a Bedford diesel engine back in the 70's and he did everything except the oil pump, the truck traveled a couple hundred miles on a trip north and blew the engine, father wasn't happy, just a thought for you.

 

[Hoodoo Valley]

Been there, done that! If I was going though this much of a rebuild, I'd put in new oil pump hands down.

don't forget the oil pump, pull it apart and take measurements to satisfy yourself that the pump will do the job, I can remember a time when one of my mates who was a mechanic and with his father run an overnight transport business, my mate rebuilt a Bedford diesel engine back in the 70's and he did everything except the oil pump, the truck traveled a couple hundred miles on a trip north and blew the engine, father wasn't happy, just a thought for you.

 

[Dmfoste1]

A new oil pump is on the list, I don't want to go backwards once I get her back together. Thanks for the insight.

Currently working on the front clip. I cleaned out the sand, dirt and oil from the front clip yesterday. It was 2-3" packed in there like concrete. Most of it was in the nose of the front clip.

I used the pressure washer and a 3' flatbar with the chissel end to break it up as I power washed the inside of the clip. Lots of old oily dirt came out. I'm attempting to get the power cylinder out to rebuild it as well. Although I'm having a problem with the bolt on front corner. It appears it comes out the bottom, but doesn't want to budge.

I found a video of the bolt, on you tube, about the 5 minute mark. HeHonly shows it for a second or 2. In his comments says it drops from the bottom.

I'm using a cresent with a 10' cheater bar and it won't budge. Tried with an 11/16" wrench but the wasn't enough metal on the open end to bit into to bolt and started spreading open.

Any suggestions?

 

[Dmfoste1]

Looks like I'm at a stopping point till tomorrow.. Thought the bolt was popping loose when I heard the cracking noise. Then I looked at the Cresent wrench.

 

[Dmfoste1]

Both sides.

That's one stubborn bolt!!

 

[Dmfoste1]

Woo hoo!!! I found a parts diagram at

https://partstore.agriculture.newholland.com/us/parts-search.html#epc::mr49534ag22054

Doesn't look like there is a cotter pin or anything else keeping it in there. I have it soaking in vinegar and water right now, hopefully it'll eat the rust and be easier to break loose. I tossed a few nuts and bolts in there as well to clean them up. Will see tommorrow when i try again.

 

[Dmfoste1]

Finally got that stuborn bolt out. I tried to double nut it, the threads must be proprietary, a 1" fine thread wouldnt fit.
I then tried to drill the flat side to run a cotter pin through and the "bolt" laughed at me. New drill bits wouldn't even touch it. Since I began working on this bolt I broke the biggest 2 Cresent wrenches I have and streched my 11/16" wrench, I went to the biggest wrench I own... A 36" pipe wrench with the 10' cheater. It turned 1/4 of a thread. At least at this point I knew it would turn. Problem was with the 10' cheater on it the tire was in the way and couldn't get a bite on the flat sides. The pipe wrench ripped most of the threads from the bolt when I reset it. I then had a not so brilliant idea of welding the nut and using a socket.

It got it out, but with a hefty price... That bolt is $150!!! I don't know what other option I had, spent most of the day pulling that 1 bolt out. And yes, the bolt does come out the bottom.
I then went for the center pivot pin to replace the bushings. It pulled out in the same manner of pulling a p/s pulley with a 3/8" fine thread bolt in the center of the pin. The top bushing for the pin was easy to get out, just tapped it through. I haven't figured out how to get the bottom bushing pulled out since it doesn't go all the way through.

And yes, more mud as lubricant. Those rings at the top and bottom of the center pin are supposed to be for grease. I can't even see the hole for the zerk in the bottom of the hole, due to mud packed in there.