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Discussion Starter #1
My best friend has just started a tour in Quatar with a figther aircraft unit. They are allowed off base, but must wear only approved by local customs clothing........and even on base they are not allowed to wear any T shirts other than USAF approved PT wear T shirts. No plain white or other personal T shirts. No open toes foot wear, to include shower shoes (unless your in the shower or latrine) so you must wear other footgear to the latrines (quite a distance away) and then you can put on your shower shoes............Even a late night foray to take a leak you have to be dressed appropriately, no more swagering down to a latrine with shorts and shower shoes, now its a shirt and all other appropriate wear. There is approx 1000 Quatar civilians on this military base, and most of their vehicles have sickers on them of the world trade center towers, with aircraft flying into them, and a image of a raghead, supporting the action, yet they allow these jerks to work for the DOD on these bases..........The civilians walk around in sandals but the american GI is not allowed to. No blue jeans of cutoff type shorts allowed, they must be Kahki and down to the knee. Women that go off base are not allowed to wear slacks, but must wear a skirt or dress that covers at least to their ankles.........Remember that LTC Sally whats her name that fought the burka rule in Saudi Arabia, she finally won that battle but lost the war as it cost her dearly in her military career. Why do we bend over backwards to please these assholes like we do only to have them support jihads and terrorists all along. They were told they are "guests" in this country so they must follow guidlines, but hell if your on a military base it should matter not...............especially when yur off duty and on your own time and in the squadron or company area.

The temp is a mild 129 deg with humidity right close to 90%........army

Guess I am lucky I retired when I did, as I would have a very hard time with a lot of their childish rules i these foreign bases. Its ironic though, most anaything goes when there is fighting going on, but just get things settled down a bit and its back to the spitshine and bull**** imposed on the troops by foreign countries.

You hear this country Qatar, pronounced Gutter which is supposedly how its supposed to be said, however americans lack a way of rolling the tounge or uttering thr correct gluteral sound when saying it, and the Qatar so and so's took offense to it after hearing it is pronounced like the gutters in a street.........so they settled on allowing americans to call it K'tar.........
 

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Tell me more " My best friend just started a tour" and you are retired?
E-mail me if you like, it's obvious we have similar backgrounds just separated by a generation or maybe two!
Dean
 

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Chippie, I put up with that BS for 21 years and I was so relieved and happy to retire. It seems like the Army and the Airforce are joining together to work on perfecting new levels of annal retention and practicing to be miserable. I was over in that region in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Bahrain for nearly a year flying MEDEVAC and the best duty I had was when I got sent on missions away from the flag pole where we pulled 1st Up duty out in the middle of nowhere by ourselves. I briefed my crew that duty uniform was PT shorts and flip-flops (now known as Kerry shoes :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:) but have your flight suits, boots, flight gear, and the helicopter at the ready to launch. I also told the that we have to play the game so when the big muckity mucks were in the area, we had to look pretty. During the day, it would get to over 130 degrees F on the Tapline Road.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Originally posted by Archdean
Tell me more " My best friend just started a tour" and you are retired?
E-mail me if you like, it's obvious we have similar backgrounds just separated by a generation or maybe two!
Dean
Yep my best friend is like a son to me actually. I got him in the Air Guard a while back and he wound up getting a full time tech positon, and the unit he is in just deployed to the desert for a tour. Since then we have been pretty tight and he is one heck of a nice young man. Concientous as can be, and dedicated to his work. His father died many years ago, and he has been around here for me any time I ever need someone. Actually more than any of my or the wifes family ever was, so we really treat him like our son. He also got to go to the Iraq conflict last year. I met him one day while I was in town and in uniform and he approached me and asked what the USAF was like,,,,,,I told him it sucked, and if he was really interested in about the same line of work try the air guard. I was assigned to the air guard unit at the time and was active USAF. Prior to that I was regular army for close to 10 or so years, got out and joined the USAF.....and then after getting a taste of the air guard, as compared to the USAF, I wound up and got a AGR position with the guard. AGR is actually active duty but assigned to the guard and your basically the same as a civil technician, but your paid by your stripes instead of a wage grade, which was fine as my active duty time never got interupted and I just kept accumulating time, and eventually left after a total of 31 years 10 months active duty time between the Army, USAF and the air guard.....

Needless to say I have been around quite a few places some interesting others not. And still despote the many duty stations I still kept the place we originally bought in Alabama years ago for that day when I would retire.
 

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Chip (note I did not address you as Chippie like Chief did) lol

Very interesting and thank you for telling the story Having spent most of my life as a Commissioned Officer with the good fortune to have been deemed fit to have been given 1 Field Artillery and 4 Aviation commands and somehow lived through it all I salute you and your best friend, it's obvious your on the right side of what life and character is all about!
Dean
 

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Originally posted by Chief
Hey Arch, we're not in the Army anymore. You can chill out now. :D ;)
And what prompted that remark? Or have I missed something If it was the Chippie thingy It was just a kidding comment and a genuine follow up to Chips reply to me!

Apparently a note of clarification is needed: Let me know what the problem is as you perceive it. I will do my very best to resolve it!
Dean
 

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No problem Arch. Take a deep breath; I was just razzing & kidding you on the Chippie thing.army :D Or should that have been Mr. or Senior Chief Master Sergeant Chippie:question: :question: :question: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: Hope I was close on the rank there Chip. I get called Chiefy, Cheaf, Chiefster, and few other choice names. Just keeping it informal and friendly. :spinsmile
 

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Originally posted by Chief
No problem Arch. Take a deep breath; I was just razzing & kidding you on the Chippie thing.army :D Or should that have been Mr. or Senior Chief Master Sergeant Chippie:question: :question: :question: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: Hope I was close on the rank there Chip. I get called Chiefy, Cheaf, Chiefster, and few other choice names. Just keeping it informal and friendly. :spinsmile
Great, informal and friendly is the only reason I'm here, notice there is no indication of rank of any sort in my screen name and in fact I sign all posts with my Given name (Dean) not Arch, Archie, Col. Gen or the like!

I have probably been to tough on some resident Liberals but quite frankly they just piss me off with their driveling meaningless nonsense and I see no reason to codify, pacify that childish crap!

I will answer to anything, as a matter of fact I consider myself fortunate to be able to hear let alone be able to answer anyone.. We will all be mute for a very Long time soon enough!!

Wit great respect to and for all,
Dean
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Well my offical title is Civilian.....:D
What I was or may have been in the military is meaningless today, as my dogs, wife or goats don't care one way or the other.........and you can call me chip, chippie, Roy or "Hey you"...it matters not to me..........I am sort of like you Archdean, and most others in this forum, I'll answer to most anything "If I can hear it"
Survivor of the days when a filter from a cigarette in each ear was considered good hearing protection. Thinking back about that statement it was a pretty common sight seeing troops with cigarettes sticking out of their ears on the firing range back in the 60's., and on occassion I find myself still doing it if caught without hearing protection......but as much as I hate to admit it, I am never caught without sufficient smokes.
:smoking:
 

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Chip, (and all)
The AF head shed is starting ot push the PT uniform. It isn't official yet but it is coming. They are trying to get away from the tank tops and open pit type shirts. We saw a messsage a little while ago about deploying into the AOR's and it basicaly said minium civies and t-shirts not tank tops, untill the new PT uniform is official. I think it is a little anal to say you have to get "appropriatly" dressed to go take a leak in the middle of the night or have to wear proper shoes to the shower and then put on your shower shoes. What unit is your friend with? Is it the 16 unit out of Montgomery?
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Yep, the Dannelly Field Aero Club is what everyone around here calls it. Actually its the 187th FW,fly block 32 Falcons. Right now they are a bit paranoid with all the new rounds of base closures coming out. From what they told me there is 30 some F-16 aircraft wings nationnwide counting regulars and the ANG and Reserves, and that list is getting trimed in half........What really has them cncerned is that Fort Smith (also F-16 already got the axe) and that outfit has always outsined the 187th. Alabama has 2 ANG flying units as well as a reserve flying unit, so there is a good chance using the new so called cut to eliminate units in states with multiple flying units, and reduce it to one unit max, they may also get the axe. The other is the Birmingham unit which flys KC-135's so its highly unlikely that a tanker unit is gonna be phased out. Highly probably with a fighter unit though. Just gonna have to wait and see. The reserve unit here has C-130's and are slated to get that new model 130, so there goes the need for their flight engineers.........

They did a base survey on the 187th, and found its not large enough to go to heavies. The next option was move the unit to MAxwell AFB........which did not set well with personell at Maxwell due to the nature of the noise and missions, ( Air War College folks like it quiet so their golf games are not interupted) and extra folks and crowded conditions, and it did not set well with the 187th big wigs either, as they would not be the head SOB's anymore, as lots of positions like base commander and deputy commander would be cut. Another thing is the wearing of the uniform. Dannelly's ANG techs will not and are not required to salute while they are technicians, even though they wear the uniform by ANG directive, they are in fact civilians, so any time one of them goes to MAxwell it always creates a stir and there is always a pissing contest and why DANGB folks do not salute etc....so that also rubs the regulars the wrong way as well. The reserves wear civies to work, but the guard wears the uniform "as a civilian" Kind of mixed up situation and neither side wants to give in it. And another thing is the 187th utilizes the municipal airfields fire department for fire coverage. The municipal airport esentially closes down the tower etc at 7PM and the fire coverage folks want to go home instead of having to work extra when they fly nights, and also have to come in and cover the next day when the municipal airfield opens backup. They also refuse to let Civil Engineers fire department folks utilize their equipment so there are lots of major squabbles going on that will eventually wind up cutting the guards throats in staying alive and active in Montgomery. Can you say "strong Union" for the ANG techs in holding the guard HQ to what they agreed to in their terms of agreement with emplyees rights. But I think bullheaded union folks and employees are gonna get a rude awakening this time when and if they do close Dannelly field down. Its coming, and they know it.
 

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I will warn you now about this rant.....
If you are wearing the uniform then it is not Dave or Fred!!! Unless you are in a no hat area then render the proper salute!!!!!!! Even if you are good ol boys that have grown up together use the proper rank and name!!!!! It is extreemly unprofessional to not use the proper term of address!!! We have a personel spec that came to our unit from the reserves and everybody is Dave Pete or Sam to her She even calls the Commander by his first name!!!!:argh: :argh: :argh:
I wouldn't mind quite so much if it was just the folks in the squadron around or off duty, but she will use the intercom system and pages him by his first name. Now he is at fault as much as she is by not correcting her but it still pisses me off big time. I have mentioned it to her and it falls on deaf ears!!!:argh:
I have done things off duty with some of our folks and called them by their first name and I have no problem with that. I even call my boss by his first name.....when it is just us if someone else is around then it is by proper military title and last name. It is about being a professional!!!

We are supposed to have our hat on when we are out doors and not in a no hat area. We should be wearing them as directed, we are embassadors for the Department of Defense and give a bad image when we don't wear our uniforms properly. I wear a flight suit everyday and live off base, I very well could get away without wearing my hat once I leave work....but I wear it proudly because I care and am a professional!!!!!:argh: :argh:

End of rant and stepping down from the soapbox at this time. I hope that made sense to everybody!

:cheers:
 

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Now it my turn for a Little rant. Number 1, We are in a war of against the towel head that used airplanes as a instrument of death against innocent Americans. If a country welcomes us to use their country as a base to topple that murderous Sheet, towel, rag head Bin Laden, I will gladly do minor thing that to me are B.S. then fine. AT LEAST THIS COUNTRY WELCOMED US AND IF THE RULES ARE THIS WAY AND I HAVE TO FOLLOW THEM TO NOT OFFEND THEM FINE. I want that Bin Laden dude dead and if means he is dead in the future that fine by me. I served during Desert Storm I and I could care less what silly rules are applied as long as it does not interfere in the primary mission. Destroy the terriorism at its base to make a better world for everyone.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I agree 100% with your view Stewart, its exactly the way I felt when I was in the unit. However there are just sufficient amount of folks both old timers and young that like to really voice their opinion on what is legal and what is not lega when wearing the uniform no matter what status your in,military or tech. Hardly a year or two went by that this unit did not collect funds and solict a counsel to try and undermine the uniform wear policy. They have failed totally. They also had a few other units support them, and also supporters as individuals in a lot of units, but they were usually the forerunner in stirring the pot in this issue.

What used to get me was I was active duty assigned there for a while, and then became an AGR, so I fell under the UCMJ continually. I saluted officers and most of the times they would simply wave back at you and say I am a civilian.......if you want to do that you need to wait until a drill weekend....or you would get replies like since when does the military salute civilians? That wold come from a lot of folks that new I was "military 24/7/365(6) and it was rare to ever have a salute returned. Or a full bird saying, in reply to a salute, yea, whatever.........

Are you regular or in the ANG? I take it your ANG.........Do you know any of the folks in the 187th Life Support section? Calhoun, Bracken, Mann ring a bell at all? I would almost bet you and those fellows bumped into each other at one time or another with all the Life Support Seminars that are held, or just when various units bump into each other on deployments, etc. What unit are you in ?
 

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"What used to get me was I was active duty assigned there for a while, and then became an AGR, so I fell under the UCMJ continually. I saluted officers and most of the times they would simply wave back at you and say I am a civilian.......if you want to do that you need to wait until a drill weekend....or you would get replies like since when does the military salute civilians? That wold come from a lot of folks that new I was "military 24/7/365(6) and it was rare to ever have a salute returned. Or a full bird saying, in reply to a salute, yea, whatever........."

I probably shouldn't get into this but just what ragtag outfit was this, No Regular officer I ever served with nor any that ever served under me ever ever acted in a manner you described above!! Perhaps I misread your post?
Dean
 

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Originally posted by Chipmaker
There is approx 1000 Quatar civilians on this military base, and most of their vehicles have sickers on them of the world trade center towers, with aircraft flying into them, and a image of a raghead, supporting the action, yet they allow these jerks to work for the DOD on these bases..........

ive never served but it seems that while on base and off duty you should be able to dress as you wish..


DOD? what is that? my question if these folks portray the WTC bombings with pride, why does no one from the base 'say something' (or more) to them?
 

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Originally posted by Archdean
"What used to get me was I was active duty assigned there for a while, and then became an AGR, so I fell under the UCMJ continually. I saluted officers and most of the times they would simply wave back at you and say I am a civilian.......if you want to do that you need to wait until a drill weekend....or you would get replies like since when does the military salute civilians? That wold come from a lot of folks that new I was "military 24/7/365(6) and it was rare to ever have a salute returned. Or a full bird saying, in reply to a salute, yea, whatever........."

I probably shouldn't get into this but just what ragtag outfit was this, No Regular officer I ever served with nor any that ever served under me ever ever acted in a manner you described above!! Perhaps I misread your post?
Dean
Dean, the Airforce and the Army are to totally different animals. But I could see these standards slipping with both during my time in.
 

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Sorry I didn't mean to air out the dirty laundry here......but people will always try and take advantage of the situation if they are allowed to!!!

SJ: the DOD is the Department of Defense

I work in the flight test squadron here at Tinker, and see out share of civilians and very few military!!! We are AGR's as well. That means we are technically Reservists but are activated and serve on active duty. I took this job almost 4 years ago and it is the best deal around. This is like it was when I first came in!!! You are allowed to do what you need to do without the Mickey Mouse junk!! I had to separate from active duty and then enlist in the reserves on the same day so I had no break in service, and when I do decide to retire I get all the same benefits as a person that retired from active duty and I don’t have to wait until I am 60 something!!! I hope that is clear as mud!!

With anything if you give some people an inch they will try and take a mile!
Is there any one person or group to blame? I don’t think so, we all in the military have a responsibility to follow the rules and orders of the people over us. There are good people all over the place, all it takes is one bad apple to mess up the whole bushel, and I am trying everyday to sort out that bad apple!!!
:wontshare
 
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