[Chipmaker]

Don't know weather I am happy or T'd off, or both, but the 8 hp Tec on my Craftsman Chipper shredder vac cart blew the entire back of the block out today after about 3 hours of use. It gave me fits when I first bought this unit, and used to run wild, and had erratic idle. Turned out to be a broken plastic governor gear. Replaced it, and set max rpm and worked pretty darn good the rest of last year. Today I decided to do a bit of final clean up around here, and three hours later it was toast. It gave me fits on starting it, and idleing initially, abaauata after I got it running it worked fine. This is the motor that smoked and burned oil that I had posted about in the vac cart threads a while back. Motor was running at full throttle, and I head a ticking type noise, which sounded like it was coming from inside the fan assembly, and I thought I may have picked up a piece of fence wire, but before I could shut it off and check, it just made a big bang, and died, with a nice flow of oil all over.

I think the rod may have been bent or stressed and cracked from the initial governor problems, but can't swear to that, but anyway its history and soon to be melted down and cast into something more reliable in my home foundry.

Now I need to find a good deal on a B & S engine to replace it with. I have a good B & S on my homebrew cart, but it does not have the 4 bolt pattern needed to adapt the blower to the motor. So I finished up the work today with the homebrew, which actually did a better job as it is not fussy about wet leaves and pinestraw like the agri fab (Craftsman) unit was. Thats two years out of the homebrew cart and it has yet to miss a beat other than when it initially shed the blades on the original fan. Motor is probably close to 18 or more years old and runs like the day it was made. I do know one thing for sure. No matter what the price, I will never have another Tecumseh powered piece of equipment in my possession.

 

[Live Oak]

The Briggs & Stratton engines are not exactly much to brag about either in my opinion. I have had the best performance and experience with Honda engines, followed a close second by the Subaru/Robin engines. Have you taken a look at any of them?

The Honda's are a bit on the pricey side but the Subaru/Robin engines are very reasonable. I have a 13.5 hp Robin on my pressure washer that has performed fantastic and the quality and workmanship appears to be every bit as good as the Honda. The Honda is the easiest starting and most efficient on gas consumption. Just a thought to consider.

 

[Live Oak]

By the way. Very sorry to hear that your Techumseh self destructed.

 

[memmurphy]

Maybe your luck will change for the better and you'll run across another 18 year old Briggs that has been well cared for with the correct bolt pattern.

Mark

 

[bontai Joe]

Chipmaker,
I would not forever give up on Tec motors because one let loose on you after (many?) years of running. Everything has a design life. If the Tec motor let loose on my chipper. I'd not hesitate in putting another on, it's lasted over 20 years. Unless you have had several Tecs fail for some reason, I don't ubderstand why the bad feeling towards them. It never feels good to have a machine come apart, and what ever you decide, I hope you can get it running again soon without breaking the bank.:thumbsup:

 

[johnbron]

:smoking:

Chipmaker: I dont blame you for never getting another Tecumseh if you can avoid it. I have had (3)-Tecumseh engines throw rods. 2 of them was caused by the rod cap bolt coming off of one side and the other broke at the wrist-pin. I have a few left laying around here and if you were closer I would gladly let you smelt them down also.

 

[Ingersoll444]

Well I have never had a Tecu blow up, I got to say I am not to fond of how they run. Seems like all the ones I have have some problems. Not all there own falt mind you, it just seems like they are not very forgiven. Seems like I can do anything with my B&S's, and Kohlers, but the Tecu's always need to be babyed.

 

[Chipmaker]

This is not the first Tec I have had that came apart or had numerous problems with. I have had a 5 hp OHV tec that used to be on a pressure washer give me nothing but trouble, and finally threw a rod as well. Con rod bolts got loose. I had a 10 hp Tec on a log splitter that also was a source of problems. When you take a Tec engine and compare to a equal model B & S engine, the tec weights about 1/3 or 1/2 as much as a B & S does. Just looking at the thickness of the casting of the block on this Tec that just blew, its very very thin, which does not add up to providing great strength or ridgidity. The blocks on a B & S are much thicker, as are the rods. I'm not at all saying a B & S is superior, but I have not had problems out of the norm that could not be fixed with any B & S that I have ever had. NOne have ever gotten to the point of self destruction.

I agree a Honda or Robin is a great engine as well, but they should be as they cost double of what the other two run on average, but spending the kind of money for one of the Hondas is just not an option on this piece of equipment.

If I can get another Tec for a decent price I would perhaps consider it again, and just looking on the internet it appears that the 7 through 10 hp all have the same foot print and crank sizes. So I can get a 10 hp HM100 Tec for under 300.00 where a 8 hp like it had is over 350.00.......so what gives with this difference........ Based on the specs and sizes listed on the Tec in this hp range I assume they use the same block, and just vary the bore / stroke and carb to gain the differences in hp. Then again a B & S that will fit is about 100 more. I do have a 5 hp or is it a 6 hp OHV B & S that I may be able to make work, just have to dig it out and see if it has the 4 bolt pattern around the crankshaft. I don't ever use the chipper portion on the cart so I would think the 5 or 6 hp B & S should provide sufficient power for just sucking up leaves etc.

Then again any reason I could not use a Tec that was made for use on a snow blower? I can find those pretty cheap. Also been thinking of getting an engine with electric start. Be nice to start and stop the engine on a vac cart from the drivers seat......yes, call me lazy! But if its a Tec a electric start would have to be a big plus.

 

[PeteNM]

I try not to be hard on any particular brands as I've had pretty good luck and some bad with most of them. I keep good maintance on anything I own so that shouldn't be a factor on the bad.

That said, in the case of Tecumseh, I've never had one that didn't cause some problem. I've got three out back with gaping holes in the sides where the rod went out. Have another on a chipper that's about to crater. Have with a friend that lost a rod through the side on a 16 hp Case Skidloader last summer. The only good thing I ever noticed about them was they seem to have pretty good torque.

So, you couldn't run fast enough for me to get another one or anything that already had it installed, at any price...

 

[ironhat]

:dazed: I've only had two Techs and they were both hard starting and died of the same problem... valve and valve seat problems. I gave up. Like PeteNM said, I hate to bad mouth any brand because you can get a bad unit of any brand, but...
Later,
Chiz

 

[Chipmaker]

Some more interesting facts on Craftsman / Tecumseh

After turning up without an engine to be found on the internet, I called Agri Fab as a last resort. They informed me that that particular engine was made for to design spec by Sears, not them. The true Agri Fab units use a keyed, straight crankshaft. This Tech has a straight portion on the shaft, and then a really oddball taper, no key. Agri Fab told me this engine and the fan blade assembly is specific to Crapsman units only........and could only be obtained through them. So a call to Sears resulted in.......a price of $607.76 for a new motor plus tax (11% here in this area)..............Nope nada no way am I going to spend that kind of money on another Tec engine. No real way to adapt another engine as a B & S unless you totally remachine a new hub etc for the fan assembly either. Not an easy chore when you look at how its assembled. Be easier to make one from scratch.

I called Tec to see if there was by chance another engine that may work in this engines place and was told the same thing by them as Agri Fab told me.......Its a Sears thing!

Well I went out in the shop and proceeded to finish tearing off any steel items so I could throw that piece of junk in the furnace and get it out of my sight, and upon tearing it down I noticed a small metal tag wired inside the housing. Evidently this is not the original motor, on this unit, so its had 2 motors in its lifetime. I called an Tec dealer with this number and he informed me its a short block number.......which when he checked is peculiar to Sears only.........oh well. In desperation I called the Small Engine Warehouse in Indiana (formerly Roy Padgetts Small Engines) and asked if they had any Crapsman horizontal peculiar motors that would fit the numbers I gave him. After a bit of a pause on the phone, he replied, nope, but we do have some oddball shortblocks that seem to match up to that short block number. He gave me the numbers he had, and I called back to Tecumseh once more. They checked and said that shortblock had the right crank in it. So I call back to Small Engine Warehouse and get the price. $175.00 for the shortblock assembly. He told me they were complete engines one time, and they had stripped them all down to the short block assembly as they never sold as they were specific to one product and manufacturer, but that they could sell the other parts off them as they were common with other Tec family engines. They happen to have 8 of them in stock. When there gone there gone........but odds are its not going to be a hot seller in short block form either, so I guess if I want to get this cart back up its gonna have to go back to a Tec again.

Design specs by Sears has always been one of my heartburns. Been down that road many times before and its what made me swear off buying anymore Sears products. I remember as a kid going to the repair parts place for parts for a Sears lawnmower and them telling my dad, you have to go to sears for that........and have heard it from others as well as my own first hand experience's with them. They may not do it as frequenlty now as they did years ago, but its still evident they do it, and I do realize they are not alone in this routine. So I have to bite the bullet and buy yet another Tec / Crapsman item, but I swear this time there will be no more of either for me. Maybe if it stops raining out tomorrow I may just repaint the cart and get rid of those Craftsman logs on the side, and maybe it will have something going for it.

Oh I called Sears with the short block number and they said it was available only to authorized repair stations..........and they refused to give me a price on it. They get you coming and going.

 

[bontai Joe]

You need a :smoking: And pause from:argh: and have a :beer: with a:homereat: Then sit down and take a deep breath and call Sears one more time to say :upyours: :2foryou: :4321: #[email protected]$: #[email protected]$: and the :ride: you rode in on too. You'll feel better

 

[PeteNM]

Re: Some more interesting facts on Craftsman / Tecumseh

Originally posted by Chipmaker

Oh I called Sears with the short block number and they said it was available only to authorized repair stations..........and they refused to give me a price on it. They get you coming and going.

I feel for you and your situation. I've been there too but thought maybe it was just me. I have a Sears air compressor and some years ago the pressure regulator went bad. I stopped at their warehouse on the way home from work. They had a display of them on the wall and it was easily picked out. They ask for my model number, which I didn't have with me. I showed them which one it was and they told me without the model number they wouldn't sell it to me!!!! Sixty miles one way to drive didn't make sense to me to get the model number, so, I went across the road to Graingers and took one home. I also had a similar thing happen with a door switch in a microwave.

I hope you land the parts to get you going. Maybe you can sell it and get something better. Good luck.....

 

[guest2]

Chipmaker
So the unit labelled agri-fab uses a different tecumseh 8hp motor? I have the agri-fab version of the 8hp chipper/shredder/ mow-n-vac. Is yours the same but the craftsman version? So you and I have different engines? I'm not doubting you, just trying to figure out what do I have?

 

[Chipmaker]

Originally posted by sixchows
Chipmaker
So the unit labelled agri-fab uses a different tecumseh 8hp motor? I have the agri-fab version of the 8hp chipper/shredder/ mow-n-vac. Is yours the same but the craftsman version? So you and I have different engines? I'm not doubting you, just trying to figure out what do I have?

Thats what Agri Fab and Tecumseh tells me. Agri Fab stated they used standard off the shelf engines on their branded units, but used a motor spec'd by and built for Sears on the units they build under the Crapsman label. Troy built also does (did this) on some of their equipment, and its not all that uncommon of a practice. The only real difference is the crankshaft stub end configuration. They usually have a taper, a step or are straight. This one has an oddball taper along with a straight section and instead of being 1" in diam at its largest diameter as is commonly found on most engines of this hp class its closer to 1 3/16" in diam at the largest section of the taper. Lots of taper shafts are used on pressure washer or generators and pumps, and they usually use the standard 8 to 1 taper, which this certainly is not.

I guess what they say, once a Sears cusotmer always a sears customer, and its not due to your liking them so much you just keep buying there, its because they make itemspecific parts in their design and yuor stuck buying there if you want ot repair what you have. I really think the short block sales to repair stations only sucks big time. I would not trust most service and repair stations to put air in my tire let alone do a major swap over of a shortblock.