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Discussion Starter #1
Hello, first time posting so pardon if I'm not posting correctly and so forth..


Issue: Solenoid showing 13V across both posts and energizer when NOT grounded to frame (ungrounded) But once I ground it to the frame I continue to get the 13V to HOT post and nothing at energizer. Then when I go to start I get milli-amps

at the energize and nothing passes to the starter side of the solenoid. At first I was getting Buzzing, now nothing to the starter side, no voltage there at all.


Ground clean to metal on battery, all terminals cleaned, battery full, solenoid properly working, starter properly working.( I have 2 of each, all working) Key switch tested, PTO relay tested but not the pto switch although clicks on/off.

So I figure it's bad ground somewhere or a bad wire. So before I dug into each wire which I don't want to do.. figured I'd ask here, and the help is super appreciated, day 3 of troubleshooting, nothing yet.


Again, Solenoid won't click on when grounded to metal frame (3 post).


Help?
 

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You have a bad ground! Solenoid does not need a ground, but when you ground the solenoid the starter is stealing the ground from solenoid. Test the grounds. Welcome to the site.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks Denver, I saw a few vids as you suggested. Tomorrow I will try a ground from the batt. negative to the solenoid and also recheck my battery to ground on the frame.

I will report back with my results. Hope that's the issue, might be my ground to body is no longer good.
 

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the solenoid does need a ground for the pull in windings and hold windings, internally there are two circuits inside the solenoid, a heavy pull in winding and a lighter hold winding and if the heavy winding has gone open circuit, then it wont engage the starter.

You should be able to bridge with a screw driver across the battery connection pole on the solenoid to the spade or threaded bolt where the switch starter cable attaches and if the winding is ok, the starter should engage,-- if the starter is off of the tractor, then connect a + positive jumper cable to the battery post on the solenoid and a - negative jumper cable to the starter mounting flange and bridge across as before, but hold the starter tight because you will get a torque reaction when it kicks in because the starter body will want to spin.
 

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"Solenoid showing 13V across both posts and energizer when NOT grounded to frame".... They are spring-loaded OPEN. When energized, the magnet engages the copper contact plate across the two battery studs (that's the "click"). Note the internal wiring of the starter relay in the generic wiring diagram below with the key in the OFF position...



3-Post grounds through the mounting bracket...

4-post grounds through either one of the smaller studs. It doesn't matter which one because the OEM's tie one into ground to rig the "stupid switches" on lawn mowers. (Usually electric PTO and/or brake switch). On cars with a remote relay, it's usually the neutral safety switch....

The easiest/sneakiest way to bypass all of the safety switches on a lawn mower (with a 4-post relay) that won't turn over is to figure out which wire comes from the S terminal on the switch and ground the other one(usually a Black wire). That will tell you instantly if a "No Crank" is in the starter circuit, or the PITA "stupid switch" circuits....;)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
"You should be able to bridge with a screw driver across the battery connection pole on the solenoid"

that's what really surprised me - that I am NOT able to jump it with a screw driver.. nothing happens - the battery side of the solenoid maintains the 13V and does not jump over to the starter side of the solenoid.

lead me to think a safety switch is malfunctioning - the seat safety switch is disabled which leaves the brake switch and the electric PTO blade switch which I believe is built-in to the PTO switch or relay..

So today as Denver recommended I will re-check battery ground and try a cable from neg. battery to solenoid metal base for ground.

No voltage coming to the starter yet so I need to get that far.. when I disconnect the starter cable - at the starter then I get a solenoid click - left connected - I won't get a click.
And if I disconnect the solenoid from the mower's metal frame, then I get a click - so bad ground?

I'm usually pretty good with troubleshooting but this one has me stumped, have tested all components almost then that would just leave wiring.. fustrating.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The easiest/sneakiest way to bypass all of the safety switches on a lawn mower (with a 4-post relay) that won't turn over is to figure out which wire comes from the S terminal on the switch and ground the other one(usually a Black wire). That will tell you instantly if a "No Crank" is in the starter circuit, or the PITA "stupid switch" circuits....;)
Not sure how you mean - will search some vids how to jump start bypassing the solenoid to try.. thanks
 

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Is that 3-days of troubleshooting (and climbing) a $10 part because of "social distancing", or are you one of those guys that have moths fly out when you finally pry the wallet open?:)

I've got a recycling crate full of them.... Do you need me to send you one that works like it's supposed to? It's "free", but shipping is going to run about $50, so you might want to try Auto Zone first.:D
 

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Discussion Starter #11
LOL - that's a good one.. thanks my social skills do need a workout and I don't get moths anymore just an occasional squeak when I open the wallet.

solenoid and starter are good - bench tested with a 12V, Taryl - where are ya when I need ya - Where's my dinn'er !
 

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Taryl time is probably $65-$75 an hour... He would have slapped a new relay on in about 10 minutes and used the money/time he saved to buy a big lobster dinner:)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Taryl time is probably $65-$75 an hour... He would have slapped a new relay on in about 10 minutes and used the money/time he saved to buy a big lobster dinner:)
yeah it's more like - thare's my dinn'er instead of thare's yur dinn'er ..

he's still the best thou .. along with donyboy and doublewide six.
 

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Donyboy is a kid that takes himself way to seriously.

Doublewide Six hovers somewhere between an advanced rookie and a B class mechanic on a good day.

Taryl is what you usually end up with from a guy that's been turning wrenches and sniffing exhaust fumes on a daily basis for 40+ years.... What was he going to do for a living besides being a mechanic?

Replacing Brad Pitt, or George Clooney wasn't exactly a viable option for a self-proclaimed redneck from Indiana (sorta like me) :).
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Driver, I agree with you 100% !!!
Dony with his boyish looks is super mellow as yellow (grass)..
But you do learn from him if ya speed it up some..

Doublewide - agree ! - carries a wrench to wipe his nose, B mechanic and studier of "how dat work anyway" and makes videos not to waste your time.

And good'Ole Taryl, I think he uses his teeth for a wrench when there ain't one around ..
I think Arnold Swartzenager can play Doublewide, talking to himself and all.. lol

All in all, why am I sitting here trying to cut my grass when it hasn't even grown yet : ( ?

gonna try to make a video of my tractor issue..
 

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I figure Donyboy is the front man in the videos for whoever owns the shop because that guy is even uglier than Taryl:)

With Doublewide6.... I never trusted any of my mechanics that called any component a "thingamabob". I think he's the Kim Kardashian of You Tube lawn mower videos.... He shows up all the time, but damned if I can figure out why:rolleyes:.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Donyboy does own his shop - he is very high in demand in his area and gets pretty detailed.
Doublewide wouldn't be doublewide without that home in the woods, no lights in my garage, where did I put my chainsaw in case someone comes by vibe.. and I'd have to watch his vids before and Kim vids, well maybe one.. lol

So here's the video showing my issue.. I get a voltage drop where the solenoid at the battery post shows 2.8 volts .. I guess I got me a parasite somewhere ..

I need more brain power to figure this one .. maybe some of you smart folk can help
appreciated, thanks --->>

 

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Oh crap.... Does yours actually have that stupid "Service Monitor Module" on it? If it does, every wire at the key switch except the lights(L terminal - blue wire) and the stator input (A2 terminal - white wire) passes through that damn electronic module....

I just uploaded a PDF of the wiring diagram to the Manuals Section of this forum ("Cub Cadet LT1018 Wiring Diagram"). Take a look and you'll see what I mean. Note the 8-pin connector that goes to the "Monitor" in the right of the diagram. If your machine has that module it's a game changer as far as troubleshooting and not in your favor. :(

There may be a work around, but I make no guarantees. Let me know if yours has that 8-pin connector ("Service Monitor" was an option at one time)

Have you tried a set of jumper cables from the battery and bumping the starter stud with the hot lead to make sure the starter is not shorted??
 

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Donyboy does own his shop - he is very high in demand in his area and gets pretty detailed.
Doublewide wouldn't be doublewide without that home in the woods, no lights in my garage, where did I put my chainsaw in case someone comes by vibe.. and I'd have to watch his vids before and Kim vids, well maybe one.. lol

So here's the video showing my issue.. I get a voltage drop where the solenoid at the battery post shows 2.8 volts .. I guess I got me a parasite somewhere ..

I need more brain power to figure this one .. maybe some of you smart folk can help
appreciated, thanks --->>

I have a troybilt worked fine starting. I turned it up on it’s side to change the drive belt. I let it down easy. I got on it to start it, had nothing! I said what the hell! I troubleshoot everything on it. I bought a new ignition switch, new safety switches etc. they did test good, but bought anyway. I ohm wires, all checked good! Still baffled! I gave up! I ran a heavy wire to starter, turn key to on, touch wire to positive on battery to start it. I tried a toggle switch, but they all burned up. I can not shut it off with the key, I just shut fuel off till it dies. What is weird I have to turn key on to jump from battery to starter, but can not shut it off with the key. The mower is only 5 years old. Weird crap happens! Turned on it’s side not all the way over to change drive belt, no wires in that area, install the belt, let down easy, then all hell broke lose! But on your mower it acts like something is stealing a ground deal! I had a chevy truck turn headlights on no other lights worked. I found the ground strap at back of the bed broke. Headlight was stealing a weak ground from other lights deal.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Oh crap.... Does yours actually have that stupid "Service Monitor Module" on it? If it does, every wire at the key switch except the lights(L terminal - blue wire) and the stator input (A2 terminal - white wire) passes through that damn electronic module....

I just uploaded a PDF of the wiring diagram to the Manuals Section of this forum ("Cub Cadet LT1018 Wiring Diagram"). Take a look and you'll see what I mean. Note the 8-pin connector that goes to the "Monitor" in the right of the diagram. If your machine has that module it's a game changer as far as troubleshooting and not in your favor. :(

There may be a work around, but I make no guarantees. Let me know if yours has that 8-pin connector ("Service Monitor" was an option at one time)

Have you tried a set of jumper cables from the battery and bumping the starter stud with the hot lead to make sure the starter is not shorted??
Thanks Bob, I was just looking at that same wire diagram yesterday that I found also, it is helpful although I'm not super hands on with them. I guess that dash is a service module and yes it has 8 pins, 2 rows of 4 pins.

Funny too because ever since I've had it (used 3 years) when riding that display would go blank and I'd have to jingle the wires a bit while riding to get the display to show again. I had to position the wires just right for it to make the right contact to stay on. Finally got the wires to rest together where the display would mostly stay on but it would blink and shiver just about on every ride. So maybe one finally gave out and is causing the no start situation.
I would hate having to check every wire.

I was thinking of jump starting tomorrow with a cable from pos. straight to the starter to see what happens.
Although I know the start works fine (bench tested again today) and the solenoid also.

If I can't find it I was thinking of rewiring everything since I can bypass the safety but then I'm not sure how to tie in the PTO, power and ground yes but sounds like some pigtail work too that I'm not sure about.

I figured its wire contact somewhere but now you have me thinking with the service module..
and I cleaned those contacts last year and applied some electric grease, Improved the flickering some..
Maybe one is loose somewhere there.
thanks again !
 
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