[Hawkins2015]

Hello,

I have recently acquired a Ford 3600. This tractor has the diesel engine and has had a Ford 502 belly mount sickle bar on it it’s whole life. The tractor was used for mowing banks and hills.
It was also running when it was parked, but that was 25 years ago. I have found that the clutch arm is froze, and the engine is locked up.
My plan is to rebuild the engine and repair anything that needs attention. I will be using the tractor for hay, and will probably put between 200-300 hours per year on it. That being said, full disclosure, I have never rebuilt an engine and intend for this to be a learning experience and end up with a little tractor I can be proud of for years to come.
I am almost ready to pull the head and have it sent off to be decked and new guides installed. So help me piece together a list of things to replace, understanding that I may find more when it’s opened up.

Are new valves necessary or can the old ones be lapped?
New main bearings and connecting rod bearings.
New rings.
Is it worth pulling the cam and putting new bearings there?
Head gasket and all seals.
Tractor will be split to fix clutch. What all needs replaced with a clutch “kit”?
Anything need replaced while tractor is split?

I’m hoping that when it comes apart, the pistons can be reused, but maybe I’m wrong.

I also plan to send off the injection pump to be rebuilt and put in new injectors.

So tell me what I’m missing.


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[ovrszd]

This will be a great project!!!

Almost all of your questions are unanswerable without having a visual.

If the tractor was stored inside in a relatively dry climate the engine repair may be minimal. If not, the cost will climb quickly.

For example, why is the engine stuck? That would be the first thing I'd do is try to get it to turn. Have you tried a wrench on the front crankshaft bolt? Or can you access the flywheel teeth and use a large screwdriver?

In regards to the clutch. Do you mean the clutch pedal won't move at all? Or can you wiggle the slack in the pedal mechanism but can't depress it to release the clutch. The first would be resolved by lubing the external mechanism. The second would probably require splitting the tractor. Most common problem is the clutch disc will rust itself to the flywheel. Then, even though you might be able to push the pedal, the clutch will always remain engaged.

If you can't get the engine to turn over, then head removal would be a good place to start. I would not spend a dime on head rebuild until I saw the rest of the engine. I also would plan on removing the block for complete rebuild. For example, I'm pretty sure you can't replace crankshaft main bearings with the engine in the tractor? Maybe an expert can chime in with an opinion about that. I know a very good Ford tractor mechanic that would know, but I'm not sure if he's on this site. I'll ask him.

I'm a do it all or done none guy. I would start with all the K.I.S.S. principle things first as in try to free the clutch, try to free the engine, then try to get it to run. Once I've exhausted those options or ran into a major issue that requires fixing, then I'm all in. Complete overhaul. Goal being to reuse the block, bare head, crankshaft, pistons/rods, maybe camshaft. Everything else replaced or restored. Example, grind the valves rather than replace them, based on condition.

This is going to turn into an expensive project. Buckle up, it's going to be a rough ride.

 

[BigT]

If the cylinder walls are badly worn or corroded, you will have to bore them out, and go with oversized pistons. OR, if you have pinhole corrosion due to cavitation corrosion, this will require boring & sleeving the cylinders. Like "ovrszd" said, this can turn out to be an expensive project. More than the tractor is worth.

 

[Hawkins2015]

A paragraph I forgot to include.

After the starter failed to turn the engine over, I carefully took a pry bar to the flywheel as had no luck. I then removed the nose cone and radiator and got a wrench on the crank. I actually broke the loose tightening it. So I stopped.

The clutch arm going into the tractor is frozen. I removed the pin for the pedal assembly, so it’s out of the equation.




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[ovrszd]

A paragraph I forgot to include.

After the starter failed to turn the engine over, I carefully took a pry bar to the flywheel as had no luck. I then removed the nose cone and radiator and got a wrench on the crank. I actually broke the loose tightening it. So I stopped.

The clutch arm going into the tractor is frozen. I removed the pin for the pedal assembly, so it’s out of the equation.




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So you can now turn the engine over by hand???

Sounds like the clutch pedal shaft is frozen. It runs thru the bell housing. Look on the right side and see if the end of the shaft is exposed? If so,tap on one end, tap on other end. Spray something like PB Blaster on it. Keep tapping back and forth and hopefully get the shaft broke loose so it'll turn. Then reassemble pedal assembly and try to disengage clutch.

 

[Hawkins2015]

No, I put a wrench on the end and the bolt broke loose, but not the crankshaft.

The clutch pedal rod has been sprayed with pb blaster about a dozen times, and smacked with a hammer at least double or triple that many times.


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[ovrszd]

No, I put a wrench on the end and the bolt broke loose, but not the crankshaft.

The clutch pedal rod has been sprayed with pb blaster about a dozen times, and smacked with a hammer at least double or triple that many times.


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Short of twisting the bolt off, did you try turning the other way?

Can you move the clutch shaft at all? If so the problem is internal. If not the shaft is rusted to the case.

 

[Fedup]

I agree that you have yourself a project. Whether it's a "great" one or not is another matter. Hopefully your assessment of needed repairs came before you settled on a price. (or maybe you got it for next to nothing)

I see little point in "beating things back and forth" hoping to free up much at all. If you have plans for the tractor once running again, I suggest you simply start at the front and take things apart. You already know the engine has to come down completely, at which point the clutch, however rusted up it might be, will be readily accessible, as will the release bearing cross shaft. Plenty of work ahead, yes, but the 3600 is still a viable machine in today's world.

 

[Hacke]

Smashing the shaft will break the fork.

 

[Hawkins2015]

Made some good progress over this weekend finally.

Got the rest of the cowling off. Throttle linkage was froze pretty good, so the dash cowl was holding me up. Got the accessories pulled off, both manifolds, then was able to pull the cylinder head.

Closest cylinder in picture has about 1/2 inch of water and rust particles. #2 has what I’m assuming is a salt?

Today I got the front axle, and all of the steering linkages pulled off. Power steering, hydraulic, and injection pumps off. Hopefully will be splitting this weekend.

Also working on scouring out and pricing parts that I will need to rebuild. I will update those tomorrow.


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[Hawkins2015]

Long needed update. Pulled the engine and sent it off to a local machinist.

Finally heard back from machining guy. Says it’s got .060 rust pits, and was wondering if .060 over pistons are available. I can only see .040 but they may be out there somewhere. I&T shop manual says that cylinders can be bored out to 4.538 and sleeves installed. He also states that crank will have to be ground down .010.

Also used a puller to get the clutch collar thing off. Release arm now pivots, but is still stiff.


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[Ultradog]

Thise engines are rather notorious for cavitation problems. You never just bore and install oversized pistons. Aways sleeve them. Always!
Correct nomenclature is important.
A "clutch collar thing" means very little.
Your I&T FO-41 manual will have diagrams and names of almost every part in that tractor.
Learn the correct terminology and use it - please.

 

[Hawkins2015]

Item I was describing was the clutch release shaft. I wasn’t too worried about getting terminology correct because I wasn’t asking a question.

Anyway, here’s a few more pictures of tear down.

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[Hawkins2015]

Another update.

Machinist says I’ll have the block, crank, flywheel and head back this weekend or next. He had to do something that I’ve not heard of before. Bored cylinders 2 and 3 to .020 over, and is putting a .020 over sleeve in cylinder 1. I have never heard of only sleeving one cylinder, but don’t necessarily see a reason why it won’t work.

Hay season is about to start here, so not sure how much time I’ll have to spend on rebuilding this thing, but hopefully will make some progress soon.


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[Ultradog]

All I can say is you should have sleeved all 3 cylinders.

 

[Hawkins2015]

All I can say is you should have sleeved all 3 cylinders.

And you may be right. It didn’t make me feel all good inside, but talking with several trusted sources around here they said it’s no issue. Guess I’ll find out.

Got everything but the head back from machine shop. Looks much better. Now I’ll just put it back together piece by piece. And I’m sure that will take me awhile.

I know a couple people were curious, so I’ll just add to the post.

I was quoted $2600 for a used engine from my local junkyard. No guarantees, no warranty. Heard through word of mouth a reman is $5,000+.

I have around $600 in machine work, which doesn’t surprise me for how bad the block looked.
$550 in a rebuild kit with new pistons.
$400 in a new clutch kit.
Sent the injection pump off to be gone through for $400
$190 for new injectors
Plan to put on new oil and water pumps. Priced those at $60/piece.

That’s with me doing all the work, and is the basics to get it running. This tractor will take much more just because of its condition. Like new rear rims and all four tires, front wheel bearings etc.

I know I will hit more snags, but I figured everything up and totaled just shy of $5,000. I think for a little project that I’m taking my time on, and ending up with a tractor that “should” be ready to rock and roll for years to come, that’s not too bad.

Curious on your guys’ thoughts.

 

[Ultradog]

You didn't mention the crankshaft
Did you have someone competent with a micromater measure all the journals? Dial calipers are Not accurate enough for that.
Have seen several of those cranks go 8-10K hours and still be within specs. Have also seen them - with poor maintenance ie few oil changes - go only 4-5K hours.
I ALWAYS use Plastigage when installing the bearings.
If you are unfamiliar with Plastigage there are probably youtube videos on its use but I haven't looked.
If you don't have a ring compresser go to Home Depot and buy a 4" Mission coupling. Get the smooth band - not corrugated band one. Take the rubber out and compress your rings with just the metal band. Photo.
If you are cheap and you don't bang it up, clean it nice and return it when you're done. 😇
Before you tap the pistons and rods into the bores go get a piece of rubber hose that fits tight onto the rod bolts so the bolts don't booger up your journals.

 

[Hawkins2015]

It’s been a while. Here’s an update.

Engine went back together with little issue. Plastigaged all of the mains and con rods and they were all in spec. Rings all gapped between 0.001-0.002” on the tight side, but I wasn’t that concerned about it.

Engine and clutch mounted back up ok as well. I really wish the flywheel and crank had something more obvious to denote how it mounts. One bolt was literally 1/8th” off of symmetric. A little irritating trying to hold and rotate the hunk of flywheel.

Timing gears and cover are back on as well.

Rear wheels are off. Replacing tires and rims. Reusing the discs.

Next is oil pan and then head.

I’ve been documenting most of everything and posting on YouTube. Below is a link to the newest video if anyone is interested.

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[Hawkins2015]

It’s been awhile, again.

I knew this thing would need cleaned up and painted, so I’ve decided to clean, prime , and paint everything as it’s going together. Turns out that takes a while when you can only work on stuff at night after wife and toddler go to bed.

I think I am going to start the engine before I put too much together. After it starts and everything checks out, then I’ll continue with rebuilding the front axle and such.

Question for the group. What it standard when setting valve lash on a rebuild? I know the manual states set when engine is warm, but where do you adjust to as a starting point? I’m thinking around 5 thousands on the loose side.


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[Ultradog]

I would set it to specs.
And plan to redo it when you get it running.
I don't know why but I have found those 3 cyl Fords a bit tricky to set right.
I have adjusted valve lash in dozens of different types and brands of engines over the years with good results but always seem to get a noisy one on those Fords.