[MGM]

Pics of the TJD

Well I got started on the tear down of My Wisconsin TJD and I have to say it looks bad.. I will let the pics tell the rest.

With the top cowling and head bolts and plugs removed.
<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/TJD02.jpg"><br><p>
I lift the head to find my worst nightmare, no piston at all in Number 2 cylinder and the cylinder walls are badly rusted.
<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/TJD03.jpg"><br><p>
So I continue the teardown by removing the exhaust manifold.
<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/TJD04.jpg">
<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/TJD05.jpg"><br><p>

 

[MGM]

Pics of the TJD 2

I then remove the intake manifold.
<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/TJD06.jpg">
<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/TJD07.jpg"><br><p>
Then I move to the valve covers to find a washer broken on number 2 exhaust, and all have adjustable lifters.
<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/TJD08.jpg">
<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/TJD09.jpg">
<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/TJD10.jpg"><br><p>

 

[MGM]

Pics of the TJD 3

Next is the glass fuel strainer and cam operated fuel pump removal. Note the Manual primer lever.
<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/TJD11.jpg">
<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/TJD12.jpg">
<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/TJD13.jpg"><br><p>
Next is the oil line to the Governor housing it supplies oil to the housing from a cam lobe driven oil pump, the engine is pressure spray lube and the pump is working.
<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/TJD14.jpg"><br><p>
I then remove to the back cowling and prep the nuts holding the cylinders to the block.
<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/TJD15.jpg"><br><p>

 

[MGM]

Pics of the TJD 4

With the cylinders removed the extent of the damage becomes more evident, the camshaft is in 3 pieces the piece shown is the number 1 exhaust, intake, oil pump lobe, and number 2 intake, the fuel pump lobe and exhaust number 2 is laying down in the sump, the piston pin was still in the rod but no sign of the piston and the rod is badly bent, from what I can see The rod bearing failed and let go at the crankshaft but I will not know for sure until I separate the sump from the crankcase.
<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/TJD16.jpg">
<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/TJD17.jpg"><br><p>

Well that’s about it for this installment.

 

[Ingersoll444]

Euwwwwww Not good. Can parts eavem be gotten for that motor? Are you going to keep going with the rebuild, or bail on thak one?

 

[jodyand]

Holy Cow

Wheres the piston:truth: Did it just disintegrate:question: What the heck did they do to it to cause that much damage.(Are you going to keep going with the rebuild, or bail on that one?):ditto: Keep the pictures coming.
Jody

 

[Chris]

Wow. I agree it has got to be really frustrating to deal with something in that kind of condition. Really appreciate the pics and the time you are spending on it. Please keep it up and keep sharing your experience and expertise with us. My engine is in remarkable, near pristine condition on the interior mechanisms and I am pleased with that! --- Hope this one was not one of those "works good, started last week" or "burns a little oil, but runs good" jobs.

Thanks for the informative posts!
Andy

 

[Rodster]

Hi
Are you going to put this motor to work or just for display? You need to find a group that can help you with parts.
Thanks for the pictures.........very interesting.
Rodster

 

[MGM]

I am going to keep going on the teardown to see what it did to the rest of the inside of the crankcase at least.

To find parts if not available new would mean running around to some of the older concrete companies, Target concrete saw repair centers and rental places around the area looking for another saw that is not running with this same engine and they have tossed to the side like this one was.

"What the heck did they do to it to cause that much damage"

I attribute its failure to all below:
:twoonone:
Over revved (circumventing the governor) for a long time trying to speed up a cutting operation is my first guess I actually watched them doing it when it was running, no oil changes, mixed oil types (when it got low they just added what ever was handy), Labor that could not have cared less about taking care of the equipment, over worked, it was just old and could not handle the abuse and loads being applied to it anymore.

I checked the operation of the oil pump and oiling jet that sprays oil on the rod bearings and they are working and aimed right so that was not an issue.

Any way, I will post more pics of the rest of the teardown, I expected massive damage inside but I at least thought the piston would be in the cylinder or at least in sight some where, but it is gone, laying in the oil sump I suspect.

I retrieved the piston pin from the rod and it looks undamaged and slid right out of rod bearing one can see the bearing inside the piston end of the pod.

More to come.

 

[Rodster]

Check these links for parts and info

http://www.planopower.com/store/wisconsin/tjd.shtml

http://www.gileseq.com/root/hahn hi-boys/wisconsin model tjd/tc.htm

http://www.laneparts.com/catalog/custom_rebuild_engines/wisconsin/wisconsin_tjd_1_wisc1005/

 

[Rodster]

I found one........looks good
ebay link

Rodster
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2570102869&category=11754

 

[Chris]

Originally posted by MGM
I am going to keep going on the teardown to see what it did to the rest of the inside of the crankcase at least.

To find parts if not available new would mean running around to some of the older concrete companies, Target concrete saw repair centers and rental places around the area looking for another saw that is not running with this same engine and they have tossed to the side like this one was.

"What the heck did they do to it to cause that much damage"

I attribute its failure to all below:
:twoonone:
Over revved (circumventing the governor) for a long time trying to speed up a cutting operation is my first guess I actually watched them doing it when it was running, no oil changes, mixed oil types (when it got low they just added what ever was handy), Labor that could not have cared less about taking care of the equipment, over worked, it was just old and could not handle the abuse and loads being applied to it anymore.

I checked the operation of the oil pump and oiling jet that sprays oil on the rod bearings and they are working and aimed right so that was not an issue.

Any way, I will post more pics of the rest of the teardown, I expected massive damage inside but I at least thought the piston would be in the cylinder or at least in sight some where, but it is gone, laying in the oil sump I suspect.

I retrieved the piston pin from the rod and it looks undamaged and slid right out of rod bearing one can see the bearing inside the piston end of the pod.

More to come.

Yeah, you might as well continue on with the teardown -- you have nothing to lose at this point and you might actually find the piston! ---- It is a horrible tragedy that people abuse their equipment to such a point as to where it becomes wrecked and nearly permanently useless. I admire your willingness & drive to help rebuild this engine, but I cannot imagine dealing with this much damage! :argh: ---- Keep us posted and keep the pics coming! Good luck, MGM.

Andy

 

[MGM]

TJD pics continued

Well went a little deeper into the abyss today, started by pulling the flywheel the crankcase and sump are in good shape, they just need cleaning up.

<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/tjd2/TJD201.jpg">

Then pulled the pulleys off the PTO shaft.
<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/tjd2/TJD202.jpg">
<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/tjd2/TJD203.jpg">

Pulled the mag, governor, and timing cover to get to the cam gear and what is left of the cam still attached.
<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/tjd2/TJD204.jpg">

Separated the crankcase from the sump, there is that missing piston, in pieces the rod bearing was paper thin and scattered around the sump, as one can see the rod let go in the middle of the rod bearing end cap.

<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/tjd2/TJD205.jpg">
<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/tjd2/TJD206.jpg">
<img src="http://www.peanutsplace.com/mgm/tjd/tjd2/TJD207.jpg">

Now here is a small list of what this will need just to fix the internal damage.

1. Cylinders assembly sandblasted outside then bored and honed and a complete valve job.
2. Crankshaft ground and over sized rod bearings used or another good crankshaft put in its place.
3. Camshaft replaced (cam bearings in the crankcase are OK).
4. New rod bearings all around number 1 was starting to spald the crankshaft and there is no question about number 2 LOL.
5. New piston assemblies and rings to fit what ever the cylinders have to be bored too.
6. New piston rod to replace the destroyed one
7. Oil pump just for good measure (even though the one in it now works, its open now)

The price tag and parts availability will determine how long the rebuild takes but as it stands now were looking at a long time as I take it as my funds allow.

 

[Chris]

Well, nice pics. Man that engine is a horrific beast! :skull:
In spite of all of the major damage, abuse and wear it is still in salvageable shape. (if you can locate the parts and fund the rebuilding process) --- :kookoo:

Keep the great pics coming and what type of speciality tools do you find handy to help you teardown these small engines? I am in the middle of one now and I am new to this. Any help or guide info that you could share would be really appreciated. :smiles:

Thanks!
Andy

 

[Ingersoll444]

WOW! I can't belive it blew, with all the meat in that motor. There is some iron in there. So If you DO rebuild it, what are your plans for that beast?

 

[jodyand]

Hope you find all the parts you need and bring it back to life. Good pictures cant believe the way that rod looks. Keep us posted on it.
Jody

 

[MGM]

I Want to take a moment to thank Rodster for the great links I forgot to do so in my last post and I fully intended to.

Specialty tools for doing teardown: Some of these I have and some I need.

(Have) A good set of fitting wrenches, shown being used on the Governor oil line in the first set of pics also used on the fuel lines, not needed all the time but a god send when they are.

(Need) A valve spring compressor that reaches into the small space on these engines. I get a loaner when I need one for the cars and that has only been once in 30 years and I have never run across a need for one on a small engine until now so I do not have one here, but that is going to be solved soon.

(Have) Small magnet (the kind you can get on a telescoping rod) to reach in a grab the valve keepers as pressure is removed with the valve spring compressor

(Have) Brass hammer and/or dead blow hammer (orange hammer in the photos).

(Have) Emory Cloth and a good single cut file to remove rust and burrs on the shafts and parts, Like the PTO shaft before I pulled the back pulley, the large 4 belt Pulley was designs to be removed off a rusted shaft but the back one was not and the shaft had to be cleaned up free of rust and de-burred on the end to get it off and even then with rust cutting oil it was stuck real good until I got it over the rust I could not get to.

(Have) The pullers I show being used to pull the pulleys are the most needed Specialty tool on this teardown with out them this project would have come to a screeching halt. I use the large one to pull flywheels after the Pull start clutch/nut is removed. The flywheel is on a tapered shaft on most small engines and good even pressure on two sides and a good rap is in most cases all that is needed to remove a flywheel once the holding nut/clutch is removed.

(Need) They sell a strap wrench to go around and hold a flywheel (keep it from turning) using a breaker bar when removing the nut/clutch. I have always been able to get the nut/clutch off using a well placed wedge (screwdriver or the like) ***under the flywheel*** never thought the fins they will break off, but even under the Flywheel is risky if not placed against something that can take the pressure needing to be applied breaking the nut/clutch free holding the flywheel. Be aware the points and condenser are under the flywheel with a soft cover so if wedged do not place the wedge where it can damage it.

(Have) Breaker bars for your sockets, I have 10 and an 18-inch long bar for my 1/2 inch drive sockets, the 18 is shown on the large puller.

Not all these would be needed in every situation but if you do a lot of these engines they will be needed eventually.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"WOW! I can't believe it blew, with all the meat in that motor."

Yeah me too just goes to show the importance of regular maintenance, but I know the abuse it was put through by the Saws owners sons and laborers and the amount of sludge in the bottom of the sump tells the story. The pump although working could not pull the sludge and the bearings were starved for oil and let go.

"What are your plans for that beast?"

None really at this time, just had it sitting around and wanted to see if it could be saved. A generator would be a good use for it, it would turn a pair of 70 amp AC/Delco alternators under full load with no problem with 2 HP left over. That is just a couple of Ideas that come to mind.

I will post here from time to time as it progresses.

Right now I need to sort the Pulled parts into containers while the disassembly is fresh in my mind and mark them for future reassembly I have photos of just about every part and the way they are arranged what I have shown here is just a small portion of the pics taken.