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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all, Im thinking about picking up a 3016 that needs to be repowered but is complete minus engine, Im trying to figure out why some of these tractors are driving the pump from the flywheel side of the engine and others are driving it from the shaft side? Are the pumps Bi-Directional? From the pics of 3016s ive seen it looks like they are driven off the flywheel, and the PTO is on the shaft, I have a Predator 670 in a JD 316 that has a slipping transaxle I would use the engine out of. Also do these Hy Drive tractors pick up speed on downhill grades or do they hold back similar to a manual trans? Any help is appreciated.
 

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There are going to be numerous complications/expenses to installing a 670 Predator into a bare (no engine) 3016 chassis. Here are a few I can remember off the top of my head..... As you'll see below, the additional parts you'll need for that bare chassis beyond your 670 Predator are not cheap.

1) You're going to need a flywheel "stub shaft" for a 670 Predator to drive an electric clutch --- $150
2) You're going to need an electric clutch and fabricate a torque plate --- $220
3) You're going to need a Lovejoy coupler to mate the engine PTO shaft to the Hydraulic pump shaft --- $75
4) You're going to need a mounting bracket that couples the Hydraulic pump to the back of the engine --- $100
5) You're going to need a 670 Predator exhaust manifold that exits 90 degrees to either the left, or right side that's long enough to clear the hood --- $140
6) You're going to need a muffler that fits the diameter of that exhaust manifold with a heat shield that keeps from scorching the hood paint --- $100
7) You're going to need a 12VDC electric cooling fan that will fit between the oil cooler and the front of the hood to keep your hyd oil cool --- $75

I understand using an engine you already have, but don't think you're going to gain anything in the way of "power" by installing a 22HP engine over the OEM stock 16HP engine. It's a full hydro-drive tractor, the CC displacement/GPM flow rate of the OEM hydraulic pump is what delivers the "power" not the torque/HP rating of any engine you install. The only thing that is going to happen with instaling 22HP engine is you're going to be applying way more torque to the four 3/8" bolts that are holding that 3"+ stub shaft to your flywheel and that comes with it's own set of stress/shearing problems when the clutch loads and you start driving a mower deck, or snow blower

That 3016 chassis should have a factory installed "holding valve" on it, all INGERSOLLS did.... It was the CASE tractors built prior to 1984 that you could have an "Oh Sh!t" moment on a downhill grade if you didn't read the operating instructions, and you didn't buy the "holding valve" as a factory installed option.

It's usually way cheaper to find an Ingersoll 3016/4016, with either a good running (or even an OEM engine that needs rebuilt) than it is to buy one that you try to "re-power" with any engine other than the stock OEM Onan or Briggs engines. Depends on the year.... Up to 1992, OEM engine was a P216 Onan. After 1993, OEM engine was a Briggs 303777 Vanguard.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the reply, Exhaust, PTO, and stuff are no problem, I guess what Im asking is which end of the engine drives the pump? If it is flywheel side I can fabricate things I need to drive the pump. The engine choice is for reliability not for more HP, It will only be used as a grass cutter if I move forward with the project. Ive seen a few pics of other 3016s that look like the pump is run off of the Onan and Briggs flywheel but I wanted to know for sure.
 

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Thanks for the reply, Exhaust, PTO, and stuff are no problem, I guess what Im asking is which end of the engine drives the pump? If it is flywheel side I can fabricate things I need to drive the pump. The engine choice is for reliability not for more HP, It will only be used as a grass cutter if I move forward with the project. Ive seen a few pics of other 3016s that look like the pump is run off of the Onan and Briggs flywheel but I wanted to know for sure.
"Exhaust, PTO, and stuff are no problem"

Enough $$$$ thrown at it can solve most engineering/fabricating problems...... I've only seen them re-powered with the PTO shaft driving the pump and a flywheel stub shaft driving the deck. Here's some pictures of a 670 Predator going in a Case 446, a 3016 is essentially the same chassis.

Stub shaft flywheel deck drive problem, also note the exhaust manifold clearance problem
note the oil cooler bracket hole locations and there's no cooling fan.... There's limited space to move the engine back because the pump hits the firewall and the exhaust manifold hits the side skirting
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Pump to Engine coupling problem (He's using the wrong bracket)
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They need one of these to shorten the coupling and be able to slide the engine back, so the stub shaft isn't drilling a hole in the oil cooler and that brings into play the manifold clearance problem
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Manifold clearance problem
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yeah that looks challenging for sure, but.... the pump on the case 446 tractor is driven by the Onan shaft and PTO is on the flywheel, the 3016 Ingersoll has the Onan engine turned around and drives the pump from the flywheel which brings me back to my original question about pump rotation direction. Is it that one has a CW pump and the other has a CCW pump, or a bi-directional pump? Also the 3016 doesnt have an oil cooler in the front of it. Replacing the 3016 Onan with a Predator driving the pump from the flywheel would eliminate the exhaust clearance problem since it would be at the front of the tractor. As long as the PTO pulley lines up with the mule it should work, or am I missing something?
 
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