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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, let me be clear.... This post is about the kind that goes in a gas tank.;) Uncle Joe and his friends are getting ready to take a new look at the U.S. biofuel blending program this year known as the Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS). I've got my money on that they screw it up somehow. Either make E-15 the new standard, or do something that causes the price of fuel to go up $.15 - $.25 a gallon. When do you reckon was the last time Joe actually pumped fuel into his gas tank?

With the concept of "We're from the Government and We're here to help" in mind, share your thoughts on how this is going to play out for the rest of us.....
New Biofuel Standards for 2022
 

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Sleepy Joe wants to get rid of all fuel burning vehicles, one way or another. He thinks everybody and every thing can run on electricity. Look at that mess they had on I95 where hundreds of vehicle were stranded in the snow. Many ran out of gas. To rescue; pull up with a fuel truck, pump in 10 gallons, start it up and go. What if they were all electric vehicles with dead batteries ? ? ? Tow them one by one to a charging station where they wait for days for their turn to sit for hours to get charged up. Sleepy Joe don't have a clue what is going on or what he is doing.
 

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Look at that mess they had on I95 where hundreds of vehicle were stranded in the snow.
What do you think caused the mess?!? Quote " an unusually incredible event" AccuWeather had put out a weather warning as early as Sunday and it seems it was disregarded by many folks leading to some bad choices.

I suspect we are going to see a lot more incredible and unusual weather events in the future. It's part of the global climate change that is only going to get worse, in my opinion. Just ask the folks who have been burnt out of their homes over the last year or so,,, or the ones that are under water.....or the folks that are dealing with hurricanes all year long now.... I, for one, am at my wits end with this terrible freeze and thaw that we go through every winter. Dealing with glare ice most of the winter is hard on us old folks, and it is treacherous for our farm animals. Then there is the unrelenting heat in the summer! Drought, crop failures and devastating fires.

I get a kick, or should I say annoyed at the rows upon rows of 4 door, 4 x 4 pick up trucks filling the parking lots at the likes of Walmart or the shopping mall that belong to folks that never venture outside of city limits! I bought a long box crewcab 4x4 in 2017 as the dealer could not find a 2 door or extended cab anywhere in our area. Not what I wanted. I need it for hauling and pulling my trailer, but it seems the 4 door has less capacity than the extended cab!

Electric vehicle technology is getting better, but I don't think we are in a position to make the complete transition anytime soon, and I don't believe our respective governments believe that either. But I do believe that we need to do something besides putting corn oil in our gas tanks! By the way, from my understanding, E15 actually has a higher octane rating than E10.

Just some random thoughts... I ain't running for office!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
What do you think caused the mess?!? Quote " an unusually incredible event" AccuWeather had put out a weather warning as early as Sunday and it seems it was disregarded by many folks leading to some bad choices.

I suspect we are going to see a lot more incredible and unusual weather events in the future. It's part of the global climate change that is only going to get worse, in my opinion. Just ask the folks who have been burnt out of their homes over the last year or so,,, or the ones that are under water.....or the folks that are dealing with hurricanes all year long now.... I, for one, am at my wits end with this terrible freeze and thaw that we go through every winter. Dealing with glare ice most of the winter is hard on us old folks, and it is treacherous for our farm animals. Then there is the unrelenting heat in the summer! Drought, crop failures and devastating fires.

I get a kick, or should I say annoyed at the rows upon rows of 4 door, 4 x 4 pick up trucks filling the parking lots at the likes of Walmart or the shopping mall that belong to folks that never venture outside of city limits! I bought a long box crewcab 4x4 in 2017 as the dealer could not find a 2 door or extended cab anywhere in our area. Not what I wanted. I need it for hauling and pulling my trailer, but it seems the 4 door has less capacity than the extended cab!

Electric vehicle technology is getting better, but I don't think we are in a position to make the complete transition anytime soon, and I don't believe our respective governments believe that either. But I do believe that we need to do something besides putting corn oil in our gas tanks! By the way, from my understanding, E15 actually has a higher octane rating than E10.

Just some random thoughts... I ain't running for office!!
E-15 does indeed have a higher octane rating than E-10, by 1 point. It makes economic sense to move to E-15 as the standard blend. About 40% of the annual U.S. corn crop goes to ethanol production. 57% of the annual Iowa corn crop is now for ethanol. Adding another 5% could only be good for sustaining the farming industry in the years ahead. The gamble is how much will climate change impact the ability to produce enough corn to meet the demand.

On a lighter note..... I feel for you with the winter driving conditions in the Great White North. Selecting a good pickup to meet the challenge has to be a critical decision for you. I came across the picture of this older 4-door pickup below the other day and immediately thought there are not a lot of weather situations, in any season, that would present a driving problem. Not really sure it would run all that well on E-15, but where ever you went, people would get the hell out of your way and I'm pretty sure it would meet all of your unique winter driving demands as well as any of your towing needs. It also appears you could put a Toyota Corolla in the bed just to show off:cool:

Wheel Tire Vehicle Automotive tire Hood
 

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70 years ago as a kid on the farm I remember our farm yard being an Ice skating rink more than once. I remember blizzards and snow drifts that Dad and my older brother had to use scoop shovels to make a path big enough for the car to get through to get to town for groceries. Carried many a bushel of ground ear corn to the cattle as that was the only way to get it there. Carried a lot of hot water to the live stock waters to thaw them out because it was well below Zero and snow blocked off the vents so the propane heater went out. Yes the climate has changed, and has been changing all along. And it is going to continue to change regardless what kind of fuel we put in the gas tank of out vehicles. Some people need to think past the end of their nose once.
 

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70 years ago as a kid on the farm I remember our farm yard being an Ice skating rink more than once. I remember blizzards and snow drifts that Dad and my older brother had to use scoop shovels to make a path big enough for the car to get through to get to town for groceries. Carried many a bushel of ground ear corn to the cattle as that was the only way to get it there. Carried a lot of hot water to the live stock waters to thaw them out because it was well below Zero and snow blocked off the vents so the propane heater went out. Yes the climate has changed, and has been changing all along. And it is going to continue to change regardless what kind of fuel we put in the gas tank of out vehicles. Some people need to think past the end of their nose once.
Well, I recon it don't matter to us fold folks anymore, but it does matter to our grandkids. Of course that's from someone that's thinking past the end of their nose.
 

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Well, I recon it don't matter to us fold folks anymore, but it does matter to our grandkids. Of course that's from someone that's thinking past the end of their nose.
Was not referring to you or any other member, strictly to sleepy Joe and the other so called politicians.
 

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We are in a bad situation Bob, and I agree, plowing corn into the manufacture of fuel is great for the corn producer, but not so good for the food chain. The population of the planet isn't getting any smaller. As you also pointed out, what is going to happen when climate change severely impacts the production of crops. I've also found that the consensus is that these ethanol products produce less energy and therefore require a higher consumption to produce the same performance in that crewcab 4 x 4, for instance.
Up here the price of gas goes up no matter the situation. If there is a demand, the price goes up... if there is a surplus... consumption is down, the price goes up. The higher the price, the more the government makes in taxes... and if that isn't enough, let's throw a carbon tax into the mix! High test today, almost a $1.70 a quart!! 2 x 5 gallon cans today = $68.00!

I do believe we are heading into a pretty tough place and I do think that the people that we elect to office need to listen, need to understand the facts and make informed decisions for what is best for the people. Hopefully they listen to the people!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Bill you've been sandbaggin' on me..... Those two rides would get you elected Mayor of Endville, MS. We call those "Moonshine Fenders" on your pickup, but yours are on backwards from what we run down here. Usually the really bashed up one is on the passenger side from clippin' mailboxes on the drive home after a "samplin' party" on the latest batch. Neighbor says.... "I don't drink and drive anymore. I learned how dangerous it was and that I'd spill way to much on the trip home on these rough country roads" ;)
 

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We should support ethanol fuel if it will stand on its own feet. So far we have only seen it being propped up and protected.

The environmental impact of the mining, processing, and later recycling of materials needed for batteries for electric vehicles (rare earth elements) is and will continue to be enormous compared to the environmental impact of oil wells and internal combustion engines. I am all for conserving resources, and protecting the environment (farmers, ranchers and loggers are the original and real environmentalists through out history). However, electric vehicles seem to be political candy rather than a viable alternative.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
We should support ethanol fuel if it will stand on its own feet. So far we have only seen it being propped up and protected.

The environmental impact of the mining, processing, and later recycling of materials needed for batteries for electric vehicles (rare earth elements) is and will continue to be enormous compared to the environmental impact of oil wells and internal combustion engines. I am all for conserving resources, and protecting the environment (farmers, ranchers and loggers are the original and real environmentalists through out history). However, electric vehicles seem to be political candy rather than a viable alternative.
"farmers, ranchers and loggers are the original and real environmentalists through out history"

That's absolutely correct and those are the exact same people where EV use is totally impractical at the moment. Until you can get a combine through a 500 acre plot on one charge, or run a log skidder in the woods for 12 hours a day, it's pretty much just fantasy for them.
 

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I agree with you both. I think there is a place for electric vehicles, in cities perhaps to mitigate the smog issues. No harm in having small electric commuter cars, or local delivery vehicles running on batteries, but as mentioned, what are we going to do with all them dead batteries! What ever happened to hydrogen fuel cell technology? Is that dead in the water? Pun intended!
A lot of mining operations these days depend on electrical vehicles. Underground rail systems utilize battery or trolley systems. Drill rigs are more often than not drill with electric motors and utilize diesel engines to get from place to place. Many captive mining work places incorporate electric loaders and mining equipment developers from the Scandinavian countries have used electric truck haulage to get the ore and waste out of the mines.
Just as an aside to this, it is a huge pain in the butt when some A-hole runs over your cable!! LOL
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I agree with you both. I think there is a place for electric vehicles, in cities perhaps to mitigate the smog issues. No harm in having small electric commuter cars, or local delivery vehicles running on batteries, but as mentioned, what are we going to do with all them dead batteries! What ever happened to hydrogen fuel cell technology? Is that dead in the water? Pun intended!
A lot of mining operations these days depend on electrical vehicles. Underground rail systems utilize battery or trolley systems. Drill rigs are more often than not drill with electric motors and utilize diesel engines to get from place to place. Many captive mining work places incorporate electric loaders and mining equipment developers from the Scandinavian countries have used electric truck haulage to get the ore and waste out of the mines.
Just as an aside to this, it is a huge pain in the butt when some A-hole runs over your cable!! LOL
EV's are the only practical choice for underground mining operations.... Watched a You Tube video a couple of weeks ago that claimed the most common form of death for the workers that built the diversion tunnels for the Hoover Dam was carbon monoxide poisoning from the haul trucks.

Just as another aside....... Sorry to hear about "your cable getting run over" Mr. Bill.... That had to hurt like hell:cool:
 

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One issue that has not been mentioned is the added requirements on the local power grid to charge these vehicles. A lot of them require a 440V source. Now we are talking 3 phase which is not normally available in residential areas.
What is that going to cost and who ends up paying for it? The trend is to build large apartment complexes. What will the power requirements be fore those areas with only a hand full of EV's?.
 

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I agree with you both. I think there is a place for electric vehicles, in cities perhaps to mitigate the smog issues. No harm in having small electric commuter cars, or local delivery vehicles running on batteries, but as mentioned, what are we going to do with all them dead batteries! What ever happened to hydrogen fuel cell technology? Is that dead in the water? Pun intended!
A lot of mining operations these days depend on electrical vehicles. Underground rail systems utilize battery or trolley systems. Drill rigs are more often than not drill with electric motors and utilize diesel engines to get from place to place. Many captive mining work places incorporate electric loaders and mining equipment developers from the Scandinavian countries have used electric truck haulage to get the ore and waste out of the mines.
Just as an aside to this, it is a huge pain in the butt when some A-hole runs over your cable!! LOL
EVs will cripple Americans to use Greyhound busses much more frequently. WHY? Picture this, You leave NJ at 6am travel 450 miles off of that full charge. Park at a hotel with a charging station. Next up, you average another 4 days of travel stop and charge just to get thru the state of PA before you even see the Ohio turnpike. At this rate, getting to Portland Oregon will take a month and the travel and charging expenses nearly $8K going 1-way !

If we all jump on the EV bandwagon, it will fail us as a nation that LOVES to travel. And if you live up north, that 450 mile range is cut by 2/3rds due to freezing temps. A co-worker has a Nissan Leaf that he only drives in warm weather, meaning above 40F. It's all electric unlike a Prius hybrid.

If a majority of the population changes over, Americans LOVE to travel will be crushed.

BTW, think of this. A family lives in the south, a massive hurricane is coming, you pack all that stuff into the EV, you follow the hurricane corridor escape route, but your charge only gets you more into harms way a little later because the charge can't get you and the family far enough away.

So for, the best bang other than gas and diesel is CNG. You can drive, refill the tanks and hit the road again.

Until the the corrupt car makers and political parties make it a requirement to have quick replaceable battery trays like we do for D-cell flash lights, we will be bound to short distant driving FOREVER. It will be no different than China limiting the travel of it's citizens without their papers please. Just in a different method to control you.

There are other technologies to move us along in the daily driver and family minivan/SUV across the country to keep green. EV is still limited like it was in the early 1900s.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
EVs will cripple Americans to use Greyhound busses much more frequently. WHY? Picture this, You leave NJ at 6am travel 450 miles off of that full charge. Park at a hotel with a charging station. Next up, you average another 4 days of travel stop and charge just to get thru the state of PA before you even see the Ohio turnpike. At this rate, getting to Portland Oregon will take a month and the travel and charging expenses nearly $8K going 1-way !

If we all jump on the EV bandwagon, it will fail us as a nation that LOVES to travel. And if you live up north, that 450 mile range is cut by 2/3rds due to freezing temps. A co-worker has a Nissan Leaf that he only drives in warm weather, meaning above 40F. It's all electric unlike a Prius hybrid.

If a majority of the population changes over, Americans LOVE to travel will be crushed.

BTW, think of this. A family lives in the south, a massive hurricane is coming, you pack all that stuff into the EV, you follow the hurricane corridor escape route, but your charge only gets you more into harms way a little later because the charge can't get you and the family far enough away.

So for, the best bang other than gas and diesel is CNG. You can drive, refill the tanks and hit the road again.

Until the the corrupt car makers and political parties make it a requirement to have quick replaceable battery trays like we do for D-cell flash lights, we will be bound to short distant driving FOREVER. It will be no different than China limiting the travel of it's citizens without their papers please. Just in a different method to control you.

There are other technologies to move us along in the daily driver and family minivan/SUV across the country to keep green. EV is still limited like it was in the early 1900s.
Having been in the long haul bus business that's probably not the way the route dispatch would work. More along the lines of a stagecoach stopover where the through passengers got off while they hooked up a fresh team of "horses" and then continued on to the next way station. The tired horses went to the barn to get "fed" and rested for the next stage coming through.

The real problem with EV OTR passenger buses is that they run HUGE HVAC systems. Passenger buses run O5G A/C compressors that are usually 43CFM and the whole A/C system is rated right around 17 ton. Heating unit output runs about 85,000 BTU's on a 56 passenger. That's way more than even the largest houses. That's a whole lot of parasitic power need that doesn't contribute anything to turning the tires over even one revolution. GVW of diesel powered 56 passenger bus is around 54,000. How much is the battery pack going to weigh that can provide the power to run a 54,000LBS bus, running a 17-ton/85,000 BTU HVAC system, down the road a 70MPH?

If you're wondering, they also run Delco DN50, 270 amp, oil cooled alternators. A lot of the latest models have started to run TWO DN50's because of the electrical demands to run the interior lights and provide the power for the latest entertainment system monitors and cell phone/laptop charging stations at every seat, plus run the WIFI system that nearly every OTR bus runs today
 

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Like I said in my first post, we are a long way away from being dependant on EV's. I do believe, as Steve said, that the battery technology needs to be common across the board, and a quick change option would be great. Buy the car, and buy the battery, then change the battery out / exchange it at a service station just like we exchange our propane barbeque bottles... just pay for the charge instead of a fill up.
 
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