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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok ... so i got a Honda 125cc cdi atv motor in my tractor .... seperately i got a Honda 389cc OHV on my tiller( i pulled it out of a old 6500w generator and got it going ...)

I know the atv motor has a dynamo for recharging the battery ...working the cdi etc ... but now i wanna hook up the tiller to the tractor battery. .. how can i do this ?? I have 2 cables from the tiller solenoid going to the tractor ... 1)the main hot wire and 2)trigger wire .... I know the tiller motor has a stator/dynamo/whatever you wanna call it ... will that have any effect on the working of the tractor motor/battery relationship ??

Read some where if two dynamos are used to charge the same battery ..one will commit hari kiri !! Is there a way around this? The tillers OHV doesnt need a battery to operate ..only use it to start !

Dont even know if the tillers motor puts out a charge to the battery ??? All the small engine experts ...id really appreciate a little help here ... just way too much to try and look up!

Cheers
 

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I would be surprised if the tiller engine has a charging system, most I have worked with don't, most had a charging system built into the generator and this was located on the power board.

There is nothing stopping you from hooking up the start cable (hot wire) from the tiller to the tractor battery, but you will need to earth out the tiller engine to the tractor earth point as well.

I guess the trigger wire you mention is the start wire for the tiller engine, you will need a separate start switch for this, or better still, a "push button for starting", and you will need a kill switch to shut down the tiller engine, so you will have to work out which is the kill wire there as well, that single black wire coming from behind the flywheel housing could be the kill wire, if there is only that single wire coming from there, that will most likely be the one, it is a bit hard to pick up the wiring, I have magnified the photo to get a better idea and that heavier black wire connecting to the yellow wire could be a charge wire, not sure if there is a diode between the black and yellow, only you will know, there seems to be a lighter black wire laying on the cylinder, where does this one come from ??.

Back to you.
 

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From the photo I am guessing the Honda is an early version of the GX390 with electric start. If so, they were an early CDI ignition engine, and relied on a battery for the ignition, and the flywheel dynamo for battery charging and excitement of the coil. In that design the battery functions as a reserve for the starter only.

if you disconnect the battery when the engine is running, and it continues to run, then you can use an external battery to start the engine. However any attempt to wire the Honda battery into the tractor's charging system will fry the CDI unit and destroy the built in dynamo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the quick response fellas ... been on the net trying to search ...nada so far!!

AAAHHH Fred ...almost had u as a life saver !!! exactly what i wanted to hear !!! i know the atv engine has a magneto ...but for the life of me i was not about to dismantle the tiller motor to confirm its internal workings!

already found the kill switch wire and have a push button for it ...same with the trigger wire off the solenoid .. just needed to confirm that the battery wasn't being ''double charged '' ...

Then i read RC Wells reply ... bang on mate ...that is exactly what it is !.... is profanity allowed on this forum ... cause ....f....f...f....!!! That was exactly what i was suspecting !! Didnt know about the CDI .... just found a manual that states the newer ones have a transistorized magneto ..... Luckily i didn't give it a ''go'' ... need to re-think now cause i also got a winch attached to the tiller (used for lifting or lowering tines into the ground) which may use some juice!!! thinking of just leaving the winch electrically attached to the tractor...that solves that issue ...

RC ...I do have a spare battery i can use ...but since i used a standard steel tow hitch between the 2 ... wouldn't the tractors ground become the tillers ground as well ? would it make a difference? 2 batteries ...2 engines ...2 CDI's ...a common ground???
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
thinking maybe just err on the side of caution .... thought about mounting the tiller motor on some wooden/rubber/plastic pads ...isolating them ? ???
 

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Fred found a manual here ... http://www.trictools.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/HONDA-GX-390-TECH-MANUAL.pdf

seems yellow is for oil level switch as far as i can tell ... page 13 ....
you are right, the yellow is for low engine oil switch, I would go for keeping both systems separate as far as the batteries go, if each engine has its own battery and electrical hookup as original, you wont need to try and isolate the tiller engine, if both systems are separate, the connection between both the tractor and the tiller will not be a bother.

I have downloaded and saved the manual, will be handy to have.
 

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If you still have the original ignition switches that came with each engine, I would be inclined to use these, on the tiller engine this would isolate the coil unit from the battery when switched off, not sure about the setup on the tractor engine, but if the ignition system is the same as the tiller engine, the battery will have to be isolated also.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Dont have the original switches anymore ... using the battery from my mower (yard master)... so ehen not in use will haul it out and put it back in the mower ... that deals with that isolation problem ..

Just thinking here ... could i use that yellow wire for the carb solenoid ?? It should be live ??? 2 wires coming out the bottom of the solenoid ...both green ... earth one and connect the yellow to the other ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Going to get stuck in .... need to build a battery box and get it mounted somewhere .... then rewire everthing ...urrgggg! Hate electrics!!! When u hear that bang .. u know its done for!
 

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Just thinking here ... could i use that yellow wire for the carb solenoid ?? It should be live ??? 2 wires coming out the bottom of the solenoid ...both green ... earth one and connect the yellow to the other ?
Nope!!, the low oil switch wire (yellow) has to come from the ignition coil connection that is there for it, this wire should have its own circuit from ignition coil to oil safety switch, this wire will earth out the coil and stop the engine in the event of low oil, have you looked at the wiring schematic yet, it would pay you to stay within its boundaries.

There are 4 wiring schematics to choose from, the first you can discount, then you have 18 amp, 10 amp and 1 to 3 amp to choose from

for your carby solenoid you can take a wire from the positive of a ignition switch, so when the switch is set to the run position, the solenoid will activate.

It would so much easier if you could fix the original combination switch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Fred .... ok ...those wiring diagrams didn't make any sense to me as none of the wiring made sense /colour coding was all out of wack... so i went out and found the front cover of the generator which took a whole 3 hrs, surprised i found it ...right at the bottom of the pile ... LT6500EB ...the engine is a LT188F ...some Chinese rip off ... that figured! So decided the best thing to do is dismantle the thing and stop pissing about ...got it all taken apart now !!

from the magneto there are only 2 wires ... one to the spark plug and one to the kill switch ...that's it !!! Your first guess was right ...there is no charging system on it and definitely no CDI ...its a Transistor Magneto. I'd take pics but my phones data is out ...ill get tomorrow ...didn't want to lug all the way to the shop for that!

Infront------- a yellow wire extends from the oil sensor to a small metal encasement (little box) and a little black wire comes out ...assuming that would go to the ignition ....

Lastly there is a brown/grey wire that pops out right beside the little box from behind the fly wheel ...no idea what that is ...maybe you'd know ??? could i use that to hook up to the carb solenoid?? If not .... how should i hook it up ...any suggestions ?

I think its safe to assume i can connect the tiller up directly to my tractors battery now ??? will wait to hear from you before i proceed !

Tractor was surging this morning so ... took the carb off gave that a good clean ... changed the filter ....then drain and took a look in side the tank ... full of crap ...so took another few hours flushing that out ... all assembled and working spot on! So all that's left is the tiller hook up !!!

cheers mate thanks for all the bother!
 

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This Gen set has a starter motor and battery cradle originally?, if so, then there will be a charge circuit, I feel if you connect the yellow wire to the black wire coming from behind the flywheel and then connected to a start/kill, that will take care of the low oil safety and start/kill action.

without being able to see the brown/grey wire and where this comes from, behind the flywheel maybe?, this then would most likely be the charge wire for the battery, if you can run the engine and have a multimeter, set the multimeter to AC first, about 20 volts, hook the red lead to the br/gr wire and the black lead from the multimeter to a good earth on the engine, if you don't get a reading on AC change to DC setting with same voltage setting and see if you get a voltage reading, if you have no multimeter and have a 12 volt bulb handy, you can use this instead, br/gr wire to lead contact of bulb and the metal casing of the bulb to an earth, if the bulb lights then that will be the charge wire, and same thing I mentioned before, if you don't want to have an extra battery, run the charge through a bulb for a trouble light, or for that matter just tape the lead up, there will be no problem which ever way you go with it.

You can now hook up the start cable to the tractor battery, the earth you will have to try but I would be inclined to make an earth strap and hook this between the tractor and tiller.

The carby solenoid can be hooked up to the tractor ignition switch so when this is in run position, the solenoid will work for you and when the ignition is turned off, the solenoid will shut the fuel supply to the main jet on the tiller carby.

I imagine the tractor and tiller will stay together at all times??, if not you will have to setup a quick connector setup for when you separate.

I am not sure what you are using for the tractor ignition switch, anyway we can setup a quality on/off switch for the tiller ignition, this will be fairly basic with on and off, you would use a push button for starting, would you be able to get a couple more photos of the tiller engine from the output shaft side of the wiring coming out of the blower housing behind the flywheel, I will have to have a fiddle with some drawings and when I work it out, I will copy to the forum.

I tried to find a wiring schematic for the Gen set, doesn't seem at all possible.
take your time reading this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
20180228_002134.jpg
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Ok ...got data today ...so i can post the pics ... the first 2 are pics of the magneto .. two wires coming out ... one to spark and the other to kill switch .. the second pic ..i got my finger holding the kill switch wire ...thats all sorted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Yip its got a starter motor and had a battery .... but im sure the charge came from this mess .. this is the left side of the board ...the right starts with a volt meter then a circuit breaker and a bunch of plugs ... one the left side ... starting from left to right ...ignition switch then 2 boxes ...maybe one is a rectifier and the other ???
20180228_235517.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Yip good idea ...gonna connect the soleniod wires to the tractors ignition ....cheers for that ...

Just gonna ..connected it with isolating it ...whats the worst that could happen ???
 
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