[Chris]

Originally a reply, I felt it deserved its own thread.
(just my opinion nothing else)
On the NASA MARS project:

I think it is just a fanciful way for the astronaut killers to overcome their last mistakes (shall we bring up the billions spent on the wayward X-38 bust) nor the other mission failures (Mars Landers gone bye bye in the past?) --- Why do we not get to vote on the future of this space exploration enterprise? Why do the people of the country not get a choice to decide whether to direct our funding for such pompous and frivoless excursions? === What better use could we derive from focusing that mental capability and genius on meaningful projects on the Earth? What better ways could we collectively improve the lives of people inside our own country and beyond with that level of limitless funding? Why the cuts in the public schools, benefits, military and VA medical care, pay-raises for our police/fire/etc? --- Why all of the cuts and reduced spending when we spend hundreds of millions to send a RC go-kart to Mars to play around on the red clay for a little while looking for new rocks, sand and possibly a drop of water to quench our thirst for glory?

I simply cannot subscribe to the belief that the world will be better off because we retrieve a microscopic sample of Mars dust that proved that a piece of embedded H20 might have been there some 10 million years ago. I think the whole concept, the whole direction and the whole outcome of the project is pointless, pompous and without merit. How many lovely shots of the earth do we need? Are we simply so bored that we have solved all of the problems here on the Earth, that we need to traverse to another planet to scheme its future demise?

Cheers,
Andy

 

[Old_Nodaker]

And now they're parading out those 20ft long landscape pictures showing ----absoultly nothing. I could have sent them pictures of North Dakota if thats all they wanted.

 

[wheely_boy]

Some of us work at making things
Some of us work at using things
Some of us work at making useless things.

 

[guest]

I would guess this thing was launched into space for a while.. not just since the shuttle accident...
And yes, it does cost millions and millions or billions of $$$. But its another frontier - really, not to sound like a star trek repeat.. but weve seen all the earth (except undersea) if we can do it.. id love to see whats around us.

What about the hubbel telescope? have you seen those fascinating pics of space and solar systems... Ive seen spectacular pics in books or on line beautiful colors... but they were graphically enhanced - colored in to look good to us i guess.

I think its good to see what is around us.... and yes i would guess the whole thing could be considered a rich mans workfare program sponsored by the government but i still think its awesome to get a glimpse of whats on the other side of the clouds above us...

 

[Chris]

I have no problems with improving satellite technology nor the fanciful and wonderful Hubble scope. But lets look at this Mars thing --- 1999 - The Mars Polar Lander never responded and it cost us $165M+ ---- The $165M million probe attempted to land on the planet's surface 10 weeks after NASA lost the probe's sister ship, the Mars Climate Orbiter, due to a mathematical error.
(The sort of mistake usually found in grade school math homework proved fatal to a $125 million NASA Mars probe)

While flight computers on the ground did calculations based on pounds of thrust per second, the spacecraft's computer used metric system units called newtons. A check to make sure the values were compatible was never done --- so off it went to join the billion dollar trash bin in space compliments of NASA. ----
Maybe we could go find these things and turn em in for scrap and recycle em?

I am not anti-space or exploration --- but I say before we lay out another billion dollars in research and development of a glorified go-kart to look at bunch of red dust --- we need to carefully examine what the ultimate benefits vs. costs are truly going to be... and let the people (who bankroll these limitless agencies) decide if and when to commence such endeavours.

Andy

 

[johndeere]

I think they should scrap the complete space race.To many things here on earth to spend money on.Also here on earth in the USA not abroad.We do not need to know what is out there.Because if we did find other forms of life.We would have to fight there wars for them and keep them and ship all are own productivity to them so they could prosper while we let are own live in poverty.Put that money toward equal medical advantages for all US citzens

 

[Argee]

Originally posted by johndeere
I think they should scrap the complete space race.To many things here on earth to spend money on.Also here on earth in the USA not abroad.We do not need to know what is out there.Because if we did find other forms of life.We would have to fight there wars for them and keep them and ship all are own productivity to them so they could prosper while we let are own live in poverty.Put that money toward equal medical advantages for all US citzens

Never looked at it in that light, probably more truth to that than meets the eye.

 

[memmurphy]

Well, since I'm the one here with the space web links on my homepage, I might as well throw in my 2 cents.

In my dim view of the world, I doubt that the money would have been put to good use had it not been used for the Mars program. It would have been wasted in some hell hole country or melted away in some organization that claimed to be doing research but were spending 90 cents on the dollar for office furniture and payroll for the fat cats at the top. At least Americans are at work supporting families, and it sparks an interest in kids and students to get into science, and computers, television and many materials have been advanced by the space program in general.

In short, yes, the money could have been spent better, but it could have and probably would have been spent much worse otherwise.

(The above views can probably be blamed on watching way to much Dr. Who and Star Trek during my formative years.)

Mark edro: :zoomin: :starwars: :usa:

 

[Ingersoll444]

Originally posted by memmurphy
Well, since I'm the one here with the space web links on my homepage, I might as well throw in my 2 cents.

In my dim view of the world, I doubt that the money would have been put to good use had it not been used for the Mars program. It would have been wasted in some hell hole country or melted away in some organization that claimed to be doing research but were spending 90 cents on the dollar for office furniture and payroll for the fat cats at the top. At least Americans are at work supporting families, and it sparks an interest in kids and students to get into science, and computers, television and many materials have been advanced by the space program in general.

In short, yes, the money could have been spent better, but it could have and probably would have been spent much worse otherwise.

(The above views can probably be blamed on watching way to much Dr. Who and Star Trek during my formative years.)

Mark edro: :zoomin: :starwars: :usa:

Could not say it better myself. Look at it this way. Anything that makes a kid want to get in to the science, insted of the law feild, is a good thing. Wile we may not realy "need" to know the make up of the rocks on Mars, The tecnoglies that the space programs have brought us are great. And as Mark said, You all KNOW that money would NOT go to the schools, and THATS were the real money should go.

 

[Live Oak]

Had Orville and Wilbur Wright (or some other) not pursued their dream of flight; imagine what our world would be like? Pursuing the edge of the frontier is what makes us the species we are. It is a key characteristic which defines the one of the best traits of humanity. I also see space flight as eventually necessary to the survival of the human race and species of the planet. Eventually, Earth will not be able to dodge the bullet any longer and if we have the ability to survive on another planet such as Mars we just might possibly avoid the fate of the dinosaurs sudden exstinction. I hate to sound cynical (and much like memmurphy) , but from my travel around the world and the plummeting values I see in this country; money and resources are wasted on most people and their self inflicted problems.

 

[Spike]

I'm with Chief

:ditto:

 

[Chris]

Originally posted by Chief
Had Orville and Wilbur Wright (or some other) not pursued their dream of flight; imagine what our world would be like? Pursuing the edge of the frontier is what makes us the species we are. It is a key characteristic which defines the one of the best traits of humanity. I also see space flight as eventually necessary to the survival of the human race and species of the planet. Eventually, Earth will not be able to dodge the bullet any longer and if we have the ability to survive on another planet such as Mars we just might possibly avoid the fate of the dinosaurs sudden exstinction. I hate to sound cynical (and much like memmurphy) , but from my travel around the world and the plummeting values I see in this country; money and resources are wasted on most people and their self inflicted problems.

Points well taken, Chief. In my opinion, the spending of billions of dollars to traverse to Mars with a RC Go-kart is not quite the same as the Wright's development of flight. I am not talking about stifiling invention nor limiting exploration in areas that might produce a better Earth (alternative fuels, cleaner air, better use of soil, limiting erosion processes). I don't feel that we will be anywhere near sending humans (perhaps Vulcans) to Mars anytime in the next 100 years. I am cognizant of the abusive, self-seeking, blind ambitions in this country and elsewhere --- where the masses spend money and trash resources with wreckless abandon. The US is currently extremely dependent on countries like China for a large base of consumer goods. It is perfectly clear as I was recently investigating the cost for Mardi Gras beads for the parade season next month. Most riders spend anywhere from $350-1000 on throws depending on the event/krewe or route. So, while these riders toss down $500 on plastic beads, the people who make these beads are making less than that per year for their work. (Average of $1-$2 per day in China) ---

How long can this continue? Perhaps Mars will have the key ---
A race of Chinese people who work for free? A Mardi Gras bead making machine? A money tree for us all to shake? Water from the Fountain of Youth?

If not this, then maybe some pretty pictures of Earth.

Andy

 

[leolav]

My guess is that in the next 40-50 yrs. All of this exploration will yield on thing for us. It will allow us to use the lower level of space for air travel. That will significantly reduce intercontinental flight times, but more dramatically than the Concorde ever did.

I look forward to the day that this comes down, I hope I'm still here.

 

[Spike]

I'm w/leolav

:ditto:

 

[Live Oak]

I did Mardi Gras when I was going to school in Poplarville MS back in 1979. I can say, been there.....done that........got the T-shirt ripped off my back. :cowboy: :smiles: I pulled a young woman up out of a stampede who was being trampled right along with me. I was a bit more spry about 245 lbs. and bench pressing 355 lbs. back then but that will be the last Mardi Gras I do. It was fun doing ONE time but what a free for all! :smiles: I still have the beads from back then. Glad I got that wild streak out of me!

 

[Stewart]

First,
Come on spike pick a side and stick with it.........

:naah:

Second,

As a card carrying chronic optimist, all I can do is hope that something good will come out of all the research and development that they are doing on the space program. The shuttle is still grounded and I haven’t heard anything about that in a while. I think they need to retire the thing and come up with the replacement.

We all know it is out there and been flying from a secret air base in Nevada for years! Just kidding! They do need to get something to replace the shuttle.

It is our nature to search beyond our borders, I just wish it were cheaper! Even Wilber and Orville had failures.



:cheers::drinkin:

 

[wheely_boy]

I whole heartedly agree with Leolav. As an engineer in the aerospace industry, we are working on projects that are just tweaking whatever technology was developed in the 1950's. The majority of the airline fleet was conceived and developed by the early 1970's. When the Space Shuttle went into production, it produced a number of jobs that was a square function higher then the number of jobs produced making one of prototypes. I believe that there is alot of technology that could be developed that has practical use. I wonder how far along we would be in the developement of alternative fuels if we had spent money in that direction instead of on interplanetary exploration?
I will go out on a limb and suggest why our government does what it does. NASA is like a big entitlement program. You should see the fuss made whenever they try to cut back at the facility here in Cleveland. Is it because they do anything important there? No. It is because it is a big jobs program. It is a monster that will do whatever it has to do to survive by sucking up to politicians who in turn suck up to contributers. And that is why NASA will not develope anything useful. By doing so, it would displace an established business interest (political contributer). And to top it all off, I have close family that work at NASA and their work rules and benefits are stunning. It might even shock a Frenchman.

 

[guest]

I'm with Spike


:ditto:

 

[leolav]

Right on Wheely. Lets hope something comes out of all the billions that the US has spent on the program. In my opinion, who gives a crap if their is life on Mars. Sure it would be cool if their was, but the idea that they are coming to get us doesn't worry me that much.

They should work on developing with Boeing and Airbus and others a system that will allow for travel to other parts of the world in minutes, not hours. That would be the crowning achievement if they could pulll that off. Then they can go looking for asteroids and martians all they want!

 

[Ed_GT5000]

News Flash: The Martians are MADD as heck about us landing there.