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LW6 Backhoe on order..help

Discussion in 'Chinese / Grey Market Tractors' started by Ben, Jul 26, 2011.

  1. Ben

    Ben New Member

    15
    Jul 25, 2011


    Hi,
    Ordered a new LW6 backhoe for my Kioti LK3054 tractor(in crate) should be here next week,Heard a few negative comments about theses china made BHs,but the big difference in the price i took a chance on it. 3900.00 delivered compared to 8-12,000
    for a Kioti or Kubota.

    Would sure appreciate anyone out there who can give me a few tips on the best way to set it up on my Kioti..It,s a 3 pt. hitch install and they tell me the pump hooks up directly to the PTO with no PTO shaft:confused:

    For an old guy with very little experience,i'm going to need all the help i can get!

    Thanks!
    Looking forward hearing from you...
    Cheers
    Ben :usa::canada:
     
  2. tractor beam

    tractor beam ENGLISH SPRINGER SPANIELS Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2010
    Priest River, Idaho
    Is there a dealer in your area that can install a "Power beyond" kit so that you can tap into your tractors hydraulic system?
     

  3. Thomas

    Thomas Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Nov 1, 2006
    Good advice from Tractor Beam about the dealer.

    I would also keep an eye on 3pt when using...not as strong as sub frame.
     
  4. Ben

    Ben New Member

    15
    Jul 25, 2011
    Thanks,
    Appreciate all your advice!I'll check out that Power beyond kit.........
    Ben........
     
  5. BelarusBulldog

    BelarusBulldog Registered User

    988
    Feb 19, 2011
    Hi Ben, The pumps that I have seen just slide over your PTO shaft and is held in place with a chain or bracket. The hydraulic tank is built in the BH so you just have two hoses running to the pump. I am thinking yours will be the same. Hope your backhoe comes with a safety bar to stop the BH from folding in on the operator. May be you could get a sub frame made up for your unit, much stronger then the 3pt. setup. Bye
     
  6. Rusty

    Rusty Member

    513
    Jun 15, 2011
    I have also seen these pumps,the slide right on to the pto output shaft ,very simple design but looks like it should work OK depending on what kind of engine speed you'll need to run it.
     
  7. Ben

    Ben New Member

    15
    Jul 25, 2011
    Pic. of her rear end

    Thanks everyone,
    Don't know for sure,but the guy i bought it from said it was set up for a backhoe or had a frame,he mentioned something about it. I don't have a clue about it!

    I'll try and post a picture of the rear end to see if you can see anything that may help installing the BH...
    Advice now will sure help when i start putting it together next week!

    Thanks Again
    Ben:canada:

    A few pics of PTO
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 27, 2011
  8. Ben

    Ben New Member

    15
    Jul 25, 2011
    Pto

    A few pics of PTO on Koiti
     

    Attached Files:

  9. traktorz

    traktorz New Member

    7
    Jul 4, 2009
    LW-7 Backhoe (three pump experiences)

    There are several good tractor international forums, even if I rather would like to use the Swedish language.
    However, I'm curious to hear about your progress, and maybe share some experiences.

    I can tell we ordered a LW-7 backhoe last year, and got more then one hundred digging hours with it. Not without problems, but certainly still worth the money.

    The first lesson we made, was that the PTO gearbox is the worst part of the whole system. It caused the first hydraulic pump CBN-E310 to leak through the gearbox, and we started thinking of using the tractors hydraulic system to power the backhoe instead. But we didn't like the idea of breaking the tractor hydraulics as well, so we decided to keep the two systems independently.

    Luckily, we had a Jinma LW-6 user in a nearby village, that loaned us through the summer his CBN-E310 pump. We still used our own old gearbox attached to the PTO, but here comes the trick! Don't fill the PTO attached gearbox with oil, rather with grease! I attached a M10x1mm zerk and pumped (ca 40 times) in grease. It worked very well after that fix, and should so have been, if it wasn't for we replaced the weaker CBN-E310 pump with a more powerful Parker CBT-E316FBR2. With the cold weather during autumn, the new Parker pump required more power from the gearbox, which broke the connecting teeth/slot of the gearbox.

    Also, I now understand the LW-6/LW-7 are both designed with the hoses not suited to a more powerful pump than the CBN-E310. The reasons are you get a too high flow in the hoses, the oiltank is to small, cavitation problems and oil will be heated up. I realized that too late, since the CBN-E310 pump delivers 20 liter/minute, the CBT-E316FBR2 32 liter/minute, and our new Prince HC-PTO-7A 27 liter/minute.

    With the new Prince pump, not only with the problems of attaching it to the Chinese fittings, I also needed to increase the size of the suction line hose, pressure hose to the valve block, as well as the return hoses.

    My recommendations therefore are to stay with the CBN-E310 pump, but use GREASE in the gearbox. Also to use a correct viscosity of hydraulic oil. Since we don't dig in the winter, I don't think the ISO VG 32 is suitable for us, especially if using a more powerful pump than the original CBN-E310. Even with the STOU oil in the reservoar last year, the CBT-E316FBR2 pump made it very hot, ISO VG32 would have made it even worse. This year with the Prince pump, we are changing from STOU oil to dedicated hydraulic oil for the backhoe, to ISO VG 46.

    Some more details of our experiences with our LW-7 backhoe can be found in the references below.

    Ref:
     
  10. Ben

    Ben New Member

    15
    Jul 25, 2011
    Thanks

    Thanks traktorz,for the PM and all info in your blog. Wish my LW6 had to come with the extra support for the backhoe,it's a must for the 3 point hitch setup.
    Hope to buy or have one made up.
    I'll try to post a pic,
    Thanks everyone
    Ben
     

    Attached Files:

  11. traktorz

    traktorz New Member

    7
    Jul 4, 2009
    LW-7 Stabilizer

    Here's a drawing from the backhoes manual, illustrating how these additional supporting devices are connected. Please note we had to purchase an extra shorter toplink, for connecting between the stabilizer and the tractors drawbar.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Ben

    Ben New Member

    15
    Jul 25, 2011
    Thanks traktorz,
    Don't want the BH to fall in on me!
    If i ever get it working,still waiting on seal for CBN pump also ordered Prince pump.
    Cheers!
    Ben........
     
  13. traktorz

    traktorz New Member

    7
    Jul 4, 2009
    LW-7 Subframe parts, PTO pumps, Joystick config

    Those extra stabilizer subframe items at least gives us a bit confidence that we have a robust and rather rigid setup, and from our experience with more than 100 hours digging time last year, it did actually work well.

    Several times in difficult terrains, we had to use both the front loader bucket and the backhoes both stabilizer legs to pull the tractor out of problematic areas. The backhoe seemed quite well integrated with the tractor.

    Regarding your backhoe, it should be a rather easy task to mount it to the tractor (using just the three-point initially) and perform a test run, once you got the pump refurbished.

    Both a Chinese backhoe and a hydraulic pump is not high tech items, rather it's commodity implements.
    However, with the Prince pump you'll get rid of the Chinese made gearbox, which is the main advantage of using the Prince pump. A CBN-E314 would match the Prince pump in capacity as well. Remember to increase the hose size for the suction line with the move from the CBN-E310 pump.

    Once you get all items in place, I would recommend to check and in case of modifying the joystick operations, so that it complies with today's western standards used by CAT, TEREX mini excavators, ...

    I've written about that in another thread, se ref.

    Ref:
     
  14. traktorz

    traktorz New Member

    7
    Jul 4, 2009
    new pump requires new hoses

    Just saw in another forum thread that you've received a new Prince HC-PTO-7A pump, and your question regarding suitable hoses.

    It should be rather easy together with your favorite hydraulic shop to make a new suction line hose from the tank reservoar to the pump, 3/4" size should do. A bit more work is needed for the pressure side of the pump to the valve block, if deciding to make a new hose.

    To sum it up, here's a schematic of the original and the modified hydraulics we made for our LW-7 backhoe.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  15. Ben

    Ben New Member

    15
    Jul 25, 2011
    What difference will it make if i use same hoses and just change the fittings and hose ends going to the Prince pump?
    Read most post on this subject and it do get confusing especially changing from the cbn pump to Prince!

    Thanks traktorz..
    Ben
     
  16. traktorz

    traktorz New Member

    7
    Jul 4, 2009
    reusing CBN-E310 hoses or not?

    You cannot revert to the CBN pump, if cutting and mount new press fittings on the old hoses. Beware of the Chinese metric face mount press fittings that are not available outside of China, however your distributor could sell you the spare part hoses of course.

    But since you are going to use the Prince pump and never going back to the CBN-E310 pump, so you could use the original hoses with new fittings. But I would recommend at lest make a new suction line hose, in order not to starve the more powerful Prince pump. Remember the recommendation from Prince in their manual to use a rather thick suction line hose.

    Your nearest friendly hydraulic shop should be able to help you out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
  17. traktorz

    traktorz New Member

    7
    Jul 4, 2009
    Curious on experience with the new PTO pump

    Just saw your new mounted PTO pump over at: [​IMG]

    It looks like a very elegant mounting. Did you reuse the old hoses and fittings?

    Were you able to find adapters from the pump to the original hoses?
    Could you tell the dimensions of those adapters, fittings and hoses you used?

    Of course I'm curious to hear your experiences with your backhoe and the new pump installation.

    Here's what I read for the Prince HC-PTO-7A:
    • Pump suction port: #16 SAE O-ring (1 5/16"-12) for 1" hose
    • Pump pressure port: #12 SAE O-ring (1 1/16"-12) for 3/4" hose
     
  18. Ben

    Ben New Member

    15
    Jul 25, 2011
    The hydraulic shop cut hose ends,crimped 2 elbow fittings . replaced 2 fittings that came with the pump
    1 JIC swivel 90 1/2x 1/2 0ther 3/4-90 ...........2 fittings for the pump and 2 elbows..
    Seems to work ok..sure beats the cbn 310..have to fix up that chain..bit sloppy!!
    Used same hose that came with the LW6 BH..........
    Good Luck




    Ben......
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2011
  19. shollmer

    shollmer New Member

    1
    Jul 30, 2012
    In installing a similar setup on my L3830. Does it matter if the pump is mounted up or down as long as PTO spinning is correct direction?
     
  20. geoff

    geoff New Member

    1
    Aug 21, 2012
    Dear Sir/Madam,
    Seen your articles about the prince pto pump for my LW7 Backhoe. I'm English farmer live in Cebu,Philippines where can I buy or purchase a prince pump HC PTO-7A.

    Could you tell me how much it will cost and send to the Philippines? Is anyone there who could help me with this problem.
    Hope for your reply.

    Thanking you in advance.

    Kind regards,
    Geoff Bradford
    Cebu Philippines