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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Guys,

Does anyone have any experience with these three tractors? I have about a 5 acre hobby farm.. I want a tractor mostly just cutting grass, moving stuff with around with a loader.. I'd buy a bush hog for the first two, the 2016 has a mower deck. any thoughts on these tractors? Reliability, known issues, power?
also, how does the pricing look? reasonable for used, or is this covid pricing?

2010 JOHN DEERE 3038e ->$24,999
1999 John Deere 790 >$19,900
2016 JOHN DEERE 1025r ->$18,250
 

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Keep in mind that only the 1999 JD will be emissions and electronics free and possibly the 2010. The late model will be ECM controlled.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for you reply SidecarFlip.. What do you mean by electronics free? Just harder to hook up attachments? And I've read a few people pointing out emissions free, what is the issue there.. sounds like emissions free is preferred?
 

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Hi Guys,

Does anyone have any experience with these three tractors? I have about a 5 acre hobby farm.. I want a tractor mostly just cutting grass, moving stuff with around with a loader.. I'd buy a bush hog for the first two, the 2016 has a mower deck. any thoughts on these tractors? Reliability, known issues, power?
also, how does the pricing look? reasonable for used, or is this covid pricing?

2010 JOHN DEERE 3038e ->$24,999
1999 John Deere 790 >$19,900
2016 JOHN DEERE 1025r ->$18,250

Without knowing what hours, condition and where you are located it is hard to really say......I am in Southern Indiana and unless the 1025 had a FEL on it, it is way high.....The 790 is crazy high and the 3038E is crazy high also.....

Have you looked at any of the model numbers in person to see how you think they will fit you and your needs size wise?

I would suggest that you go to a dealer that has these models in stock and test drive them to see if they are a fit for you first. The 1025 is a very small frame tractor. The 3038 is two sizes up in frame size from the 1025. You might look at the 20 series...

As for prices in your area......Check Tractor House and you can also check the used equipment page on John Deere's website.....

And yes, John Deere has some quality issues on a lot of models of their small tractors. My opinion, John Deere is way overpriced for what you get...Kioti, Kubota, LS and Yanmar are much better bang for the buck......
 

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Just some more food for thought......We have a little over 80 acres that is mostly hay fields and pasture. We have cattle, horses and a few sheep. Two years ago I found the need for a smaller tractor with a FEL so I bought a Kioti CS2210...Very nice little tractor but I found that it was too small and too light and not enough umph to really do all that I wanted it to do so I traded it this spring for a CK3510 which is the same size as the John Deere 30 series. My CS2210 was the same size as the John Deere 10 series.....

If you can afford to go a little bigger in HP and size then you think you need.....Once you have it, you will find more things to do with it then you thought you bought one.....LOL
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Just some more food for thought......We have a little over 80 acres that is mostly hay fields and pasture. We have cattle, horses and a few sheep. Two years ago I found the need for a smaller tractor with a FEL so I bought a Kioti CS2210...Very nice little tractor but I found that it was too small and too light and not enough umph to really do all that I wanted it to do so I traded it this spring for a CK3510 which is the same size as the John Deere 30 series. My CS2210 was the same size as the John Deere 10 series.....

If you can afford to go a little bigger in HP and size then you think you need.....Once you have it, you will find more things to do with it then you thought you bought one.....LOL
Yea I think I gotta go mid size, and I’ll have a look at the koito, I hear good things.
 

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Thanks for you reply SidecarFlip.. What do you mean by electronics free? Just harder to hook up attachments? And I've read a few people pointing out emissions free, what is the issue there.. sounds like emissions free is preferred?
Preferred because it's less complex and complexity leads to component failure.,
 

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Thanks for you reply SidecarFlip.. What do you mean by electronics free? Just harder to hook up attachments? And I've read a few people pointing out emissions free, what is the issue there.. sounds like emissions free is preferred?

Some on here will tell you that the only way to go is the older emissions free and models that are old enough to not have ECMs, electronic control module, however there are some that will tell you that they are fine. I have had and do have both newer and older models and to a point have had about the same luck with both. The main thing about the newer models with the emissions is if you buy used you have no idea how they have been ran or taken care of which is the same case as the older models but the newer models are way more complex to trouble shoot and repair and more expensive to repair. My opinion is if you are going to buy a used what they call a Tier 4 engine tractor, do some research talk to as many veteran type folks you can both here and elsewhere and see what the general feeling is about how many hours you can expect to get out of one that has been properly taken care of before any major failures. Also, get an idea of what you can expect as far as routine maintenance and cost for maintenance.

What ever you do, don't take one or two opinions and base your purchase on just that.....
 

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My philosophy is simply, the more complex any machine (in this case tractor) becomes, the more likely the chance of it failing at some point and post 4 diesel engines are much more complex (and usually the emissions components are lowest bidder sourced) so the chances of failure become more pronounced' Don't much care what you buy, just be apprised that the track record for reliability when it comes to an emissions compliant diesel tractor aren't as good as a non compliant emissions component free unit.

Additionally, when you do have an issue and get an error code on the display, it's usually a trip to the dealer or a farm call because unlike a mechanically injected and pre emissions engine, problems cannot be diagnosed or addressed by the end user, it becomes a dealer only repair.

You need to ne aware of that going into apurchase and that is the primary reason why pre emissions (not ancient but fairly new models are increasing in value, not decreasing. Much easier to deal with issue that arise.
 

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My philosophy is simply, the more complex any machine (in this case tractor) becomes, the more likely the chance of it failing at some point and post 4 diesel engines are much more complex (and usually the emissions components are lowest bidder sourced) so the chances of failure become more pronounced' Don't much care what you buy, just be apprised that the track record for reliability when it comes to an emissions compliant diesel tractor aren't as good as a non compliant emissions component free unit.

Additionally, when you do have an issue and get an error code on the display, it's usually a trip to the dealer or a farm call because unlike a mechanically injected and pre emissions engine, problems cannot be diagnosed or addressed by the end user, it becomes a dealer only repair.

You need to ne aware of that going into apurchase and that is the primary reason why pre emissions (not ancient but fairly new models are increasing in value, not decreasing. Much easier to deal with issue that arise.
As a lead mechanic in the mid-90's, I had no choice but to learn diesel electronic control systems from the very beginning in order to train shop crews on the change in technology. Sadly, I watched a whole bunch of pretty good diesel mechanics get left behind because they weren't willing, or were unable intellectually, to keep up with the changes. Electronic controls have been standard equipment for on-highway truck engines for close to 25 years now. Off-highway equipment caught a break from the EPA and was slowly "Tiered in", but those days are over for good now.

Granted electronic controls/sensors are much more complicated and it takes some expensive diagnostic equipment/software to maintain basic function, but it still boils down to the three basic attributes of air, fuel, and compression timing to make a diesel engine run. Once you understand that all engine fault codes are centered around that basic concept, the mystery of electronic controls starts to unravel itself and becomes a matter of learning what sensors measure the inputs/outputs for the ECM to control those attributes..... That's why it's called a "control module".

The ECM on a modern diesel engine can actually "talk" to you and tell you what's wrong with it. The problem with the average DIY guy is you have to learn/understand it's electronic language (fault codes). If you're unable, or unwilling, to learn that language, then you have to pay somebody that does understand it and has the equipment to "communicate" with the engine.

Contrary to some thought, it's not a giant conspiracy. It's been 45 years in the making and there's no going back now. Hasn't been a car made in the U.S. with a carburetor since 1984. If your mechanic skill set was centered around Rochester, Carter, Holley, you had to advance with the times or get left behind. Same thing has been planned for diesel engines by our friends at the CARB since the mid-70's. I used to work for an old timer that said "There hasn't been a good car engine made since they came up with that crap unleaded gasoline"...... Now that's old school;)
 

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Have no issue with electronic controlled engines, in fact I own a very expensive and sophisticated Autel laptop OBD scanner.

Having said that however, I prefer for my own use, a mechanically injected turbocharged diesel engine and that is exactly what I run.

I got in on the electronics end before I retired with Class 8 diesels as well. Got to see all the pitfalls of DEF injection, SCR units and all the component failures cause by lowest bidder components. In fact, for a while I was rebuilding one boxes for Detroit Diesel. I had a cush job TIG welding in new sensor bungs because the OEM ones were failing. That and TIG welding replacement baffles because the OEM ones were breaking dur to poor welding technique. Used to charge 125 bucks for a bung replacement and 250 for rewelding the baffles. I quit doing it, just took up too much time, besides I'm retired.

With class 8 diesels, the ECM don't 'talk to you. You access the ECM and the manufacturer connects to it via modem and then the engine manufacturer instructs you on what components to replace or what they 'believe' is the issue. One thing we found out early on was a lot of the issues came from substandard wires chafing and breaking. Still take a bit of detective work no matter how sophisticated the engine and it's emissions control components are.

Been there did that and have no issue using diagnostic tools. Lime I said, for my own use, I prefer a mechanically injected engine. Of course the cars are a different story but the emissions systems on gasoline powered vehicles have pretty much graduated from the troublesome stage to the run forever stage now.
 

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Have no issue with electronic controlled engines, in fact I own a very expensive and sophisticated Autel laptop OBD scanner.

Having said that however, I prefer for my own use, a mechanically injected turbocharged diesel engine and that is exactly what I run.

I got in on the electronics end before I retired with Class 8 diesels as well. Got to see all the pitfalls of DEF injection, SCR units and all the component failures cause by lowest bidder components. In fact, for a while I was rebuilding one boxes for Detroit Diesel. I had a cush job TIG welding in new sensor bungs because the OEM ones were failing. That and TIG welding replacement baffles because the OEM ones were breaking dur to poor welding technique. Used to charge 125 bucks for a bung replacement and 250 for rewelding the baffles. I quit doing it, just took up too much time, besides I'm retired.

With class 8 diesels, the ECM don't 'talk to you. You access the ECM and the manufacturer connects to it via modem and then the engine manufacturer instructs you on what components to replace or what they 'believe' is the issue. One thing we found out early on was a lot of the issues came from substandard wires chafing and breaking. Still take a bit of detective work no matter how sophisticated the engine and it's emissions control components are.

Been there did that and have no issue using diagnostic tools. Lime I said, for my own use, I prefer a mechanically injected engine. Of course the cars are a different story but the emissions systems on gasoline powered vehicles have pretty much graduated from the troublesome stage to the run forever stage now.
"With class 8 diesels, the ECM don't 'talk to you"

Oh, they do to me.... Been using that line to take the fear out of electronic controls for neophytes since the 90's. I've probably had/given more training on electronics in my career than any other aspect of class 8 truck engines

The biggest opportunity I came across to really learn electronics was from the guys at the source. I was lucky enough to be invited to be on the committee that wrote the original ASE Electronic Diesel Engine Diagnosis Specialist test (L2). I spent 3 week long sessions with the Engineers and Software Developers that actually designed the system architecture. I had to sign a NDA and wasn't eligible to take the L2 test for 10 years, but it was more than worth it.

CAT, Cummins, Detroit, Mack, IH, John Deere, Ford, GM, Perkins..... All of the major OEM engine companies sent technical people. First week long session was deciding the format of the test. 2nd week was writing/selecting the actual test questions. Final week was reviewing everything for publication and planning the rollout of the new test.

Spent 21 days in conference rooms working with these highly educated OEM guys and then would go to dinner on ASE every night. Learned more at the bar after dinner during those 3 weeks than I did in several formal OEM classroom training sessions over the next 20 years.

A little bit different experience with electronic engine controls than yours, but I can get a modern diesel engine to "talk to me" a lot better than most guys. I can even recognize the major differences in "accents" between the OEM's ;)
 

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"With class 8 diesels, the ECM don't 'talk to you"

Oh, they do to me.... Been using that line to take the fear out of electronic controls for neophytes since the 90's. I've probably had/given more training on electronics in my career than any other aspect of class 8 truck engines

The biggest opportunity I came across to really learn electronics was from the guys at the source. I was lucky enough to be invited to be on the committee that wrote the original ASE Electronic Diesel Engine Diagnosis Specialist test (L2). I spent 3 week long sessions with the Engineers and Software Developers that actually designed the system architecture. I had to sign a NDA and wasn't eligible to take the L2 test for 10 years, but it was more than worth it.

CAT, Cummins, Detroit, Mack, IH, John Deere, Ford, GM, Perkins..... All of the major OEM engine companies sent technical people. First week long session was deciding the format of the test. 2nd week was writing/selecting the actual test questions. Final week was reviewing everything for publication and planning the rollout of the new test.

Spent 21 days in conference rooms working with these highly educated OEM guys and then would go to dinner on ASE every night. Learned more at the bar after dinner during those 3 weeks than I did in several formal OEM classroom training sessions over the next 20 years.

A little bit different experience with electronic engine controls than yours, but I can get a modern diesel engine to "talk to me" a lot better than most guys. I can even recognize the major differences in "accents" between the OEM's ;)


The only ones that I know will not talk to you unless "dad" let's them is Volvo engines......Volvo has locked down there software major. But, if you buy a semi you know that you get what you pay for.....
 

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The only ones that I know will not talk to you unless "dad" let's them is Volvo engines......Volvo has locked down there software major. But, if you buy a semi you know that you get what you pay for.....
The laptop I'm using right now to type this response has probably $8,000 worth of diagnostic software on it..... Cummins Insite Dealer Level, Detroit Diesel Diagnostic Link (DDDL 8.07), PACCAR Davie4. Have current Dealership licensing for all three. Can do/read anything a dealership can on a class 8 truck with those engines, including forced regens. They gave me this stuff and the cabling because part of my job was to issue PO's to buy 100 replacement trucks every year.
 

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The laptop I'm using right now to type this response has probably $8,000 worth of diagnostic software on it..... Cummins Insite Dealer Level, Detroit Diesel Diagnostic Link (DDDL 8.07), PACCAR Davie4. Have current Dealership licensing for all three. Can do/read anything a dealership can on a class 8 truck with those engines, including forced regens. They gave me this stuff and the cabling because part of my job was to issue PO's to buy 100 replacement trucks every year.

Nice but I see that you left out Volvo.......LOL.........The company I drive for leases all their tractors and trailers.....They made the mistake one go around to lease Volvos......They only did that 1 time......They were junk.......100K miles per set of injectors and 150K on a turbo was the norm with them......I put about 650K on mine in about 5 years and went through 6 sets of injectors, 3 turbos, 2 DPFs, had the 7th injector replaced 2 times, the rear drive axel and pumpkin replaced due to the stub drive shaft between the drive axels failing in a big way, and that is just the big ticket items........
 

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Don't know, never drove one. Only drove Western Stars with big Cats and 13's or 18's.. My farm tractor is an International Eagle Conventional double bunk with a Cat NZ and a 13 double over. Have a Timpte hopper body, 42 foot, three dump, tandem axle. Everything on 11 hundred x 24.5 polished Alcoa forged aluminum wheels, inners and outers. Probably should have bought a Star but the leg room in the Eagle is better.
 
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