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Discussion Starter #1
Isn't it time now to forget party lines and get this under control already? The lack of vocal action and definite inaction from the current administration blows my mind....
This is a tractor forum first, so I'm not looking to start another debate. There should be a common bond of questions from all of us like "WTF is this?" why is this happening?"

This article came from Reuters - as neutral as i can find for now
but I'm sure someone will think its a leftist agenda regardless :)

Duc


White House Expresses Displeasure with OPEC

By Adam Entous

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The White House said on Wednesday President Bush (news - web sites) was disappointed by OPEC (news - web sites)'s decision to cut oil production and that officials were reaching out to non-OPEC nations for help after Democratic challenger John Kerry (news - web sites) accused Bush of ignoring high prices at the pump.

While initially raising no public objections to OPEC's decision, the White House reversed course and said Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites), national security adviser Condoleezza Rice (news - web sites) and others were actively pressing OPEC and non-OPEC nations to address U.S. concerns about record-high prices.


Kerry has seized on record gas prices as a new thrust in his campaign, accusing Bush -- a former Texas oilman -- of "inaction" and of breaking a 2000 pledge to step up pressure on the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries to keep prices low.


"The president is disappointed in today's decision," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said. "Producers should not take steps that harm American consumers and our economy."


He said the administration was in contact with certain allies within OPEC in the run-up to the announcement from Vienna on Wednesday, but declined to identify them.


While his senior advisers worked the phones, Bush did not personally press member states to lift export restrictions to help control U.S. pump prices, officials said.


McClellan said Bush was concerned about the prices paid by U.S. consumers, but he initially declined to criticize OPEC's decision to cut crude oil production by 1 million barrels per day in April, a move that will tighten global supplies even more and may drive prices higher.


McClellan expressed disappointment with OPEC at a televised news briefing just hours after other White House officials insisted the administration, as a policy, does not comment publicly on specific OPEC decisions.


Asked if OPEC was ignoring Washington's concerns, McClellan told reporters, "We stay in close discussion with non-OPEC nations as well and we will continue to do so." These include Mexico, Norway and Canada.


An administration official said the talks with non-OPEC members were likely to focus on increasing production to make up for any cuts.


A senior Energy Department official said the administration also was looking at possible short-term measures, though he offered no specifics. Retail gasoline prices have soared to a record $1.76 per gallon.


McClellan said the administration was working with state and local officials "to look at possible regional spikes in gas prices and consider other ways that we can address these issues."


Kerry blamed Bush for "old thinking" on solutions to energy problems, saying he "sent a message to OPEC that his administration will continue to be complacent about our dependency on foreign oil."


"George Bush ran for president pledging to pressure OPEC to relieve high prices, but on his watch the problems have gotten worse and the solution has been surrender," he said.


Kerry has pledged to drive down fuel costs by suspending replenishment of the nation's crude oil stockpile, the U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve.


The White House, for now, opposes such a move. McClellan cited "independent analysts" as saying it would have a "negligible impact" on prices, and possibly compromise national security.


"You have to keep in mind that there are national security concerns involved when you're talking about that issue, particularly in light of September 11," McClellan said.


He put the blame on Democrats in the U.S. Congress for failing to pass the Republican president's energy plan and said oil prices should be set by market forces.

CAMPAIGN PLEDGE?

In the 2000 presidential campaign, Bush said it was the president's job to "jawbone" OPEC producers by getting "on the phone with the OPEC cartel and say we expect you to open your spigots."

Democrats jumped on Bush for not following through.

"If the Bush administration went after OPEC as hard as it went after Richard Clarke, our gas prices might not be so high," said Democratic Sen. Charles Schumer of New York, referring to the White House attack on its former counterterrorism official who criticized Bush's actions before Sept. 11, 2001. (Additional reporting by Patricia Wilson and Chris Baltimore)
 

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Jay Leno addressed this issue in his opening monologue last night....Jay mentioned that Kerry said "If elected he would do some arm twisting of the oil cartel to get the production up."......Jay responded as to how would that work? Bush bombed the hell out of the region, reducing it to rubble and the production didn't go up. :lmao:

In reality, it's sad that some people in our government doesn't get off their collective asses and address this issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Argee,

In this case I want both sides to be pissed off about this and agree for once... i honestly dont want it going south into a
slug fest about parties and canditates. Its about who is there now, and whats being done today about it....

Duc
 

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I wouldn't write things off just yet Duc. Wouldn't surprise me if there aren't some off line discussions taking place in some pretty high places. They may have most of the oil but they import EVERYTHING else.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I agree with you Chief 100% - its just too little to late, it should have never come to this point. These prices have been rising for sometime, and not a peep out of them. They are on the verge of being even more disgustingly high, with todays OPEC reduction announcements... I wasn't writing off the election for Bush yet.
I'm realistic it will be a close race, and he may win again...
But he is handing his opponent a loaded gun and asking him to aim it at him (analogy)...

Cheers!!

Duc
 

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Kerry has NO credibility on this issue (or many others for that matter) The Bush campaign just aired one of Kerry's past speeches where he proposed and advocated raising the gas and fuel taxes tremendously. Kerry is flip flopping like a Skipjack that flopped off the hook and fell into the boat bilge. His approval ratings are reflecting this as well.
 

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neither one of the two of them[Dub or Kerry] is worth the time it would to vote for either one-- we allow ourselves to bleed and be hated , bankrupted for every nation . congress talks and postures endlessly while good men and women suffer here at home; we send our young men and women to serve and die in every pesthole in the world , we get shit on and robbed by every petty dictator and king everywhere so that a few congressmen can get re-elected with money from the influence peddlers . . and every time I see some crowds of assholes jumping up and down and screaming death to america, and abusing the dead bodies of american military men and women , I wonder " where in the hell are some choppers and chain guns when you want them? bigl22
 

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Some of these issues would have been addressed in Bush's energy policy that was shot down by the democrats about 2-3 years ago.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The only one who can address this issue right now is the guy in office today....the guy on the outside looking in really cant do much about it can he? The gas has been climbing since his first day in office, and never a word spoken about it until now, when it gave the opposition some ammo....

Its really not a political debate, its more about what exactly is being done about it, today...:eek:

Duc
 

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The problem and/or potential problem should have been addressed before and it would have never come to this. It's all political no doubt about it. The democratic senate blocks anything Bush tries to do and then complains he does nothing. The left leaning media only focuses on the negatives and hardly ever reports anything to make Bush look good.
 

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This is such B.S. :cry:

I love you guys, but when it comes to stuff like this you sound
like a bunch of kids who are crying because the bad man took
your stuff and YOU WANT MOMMY TO DO SMOETHING.

Why blame GW ? How is he any different than JFK, Johnson,
Nixon, Carter, Reagan, Sr. or Bubba. They all knew these SOB’s
had control of half the worlds oil and we were burning it up as
fast as they could pull it out of the ground. What did they do
back then to prevent us from being held by the balls today ?

What do you expect Mommy to do now ?
Kerry gets on TV and bashes Mommy, then say’s he would
suspend stockpiling oil into the reserve. The Bobble-Heads Cheer!
The reality (and Kerry knows it) is the reserve gets about 5 million
barrels a month. (peanuts compared to our compulsion) this would
have an impact of 2-3 cents per gallon assuming OPEC did not
counter with a tiny cutback to offset this stroke of genius.

You all talk about additives, (about 10 cents a gallon). Is this
dime going to make you all happy ? Now we’re up to 13 cents.
How about 50 cents. Most of America drives around 12K miles
a year. That’s about 1,000 miles a month, 250 miles a week.
(Yeah I know you know somebody who drives 100K a year
but he’s only one vote) At 20 MPG that 250 miles equals about
13 gallons a week and the 50 cents extra means $6.50 a week.

All the Mommy’s know this, and then they look at how many
$35-40,000.00 cars and trucks are sold to us POOR Americans
every year. (Duc…not to mention the Long Island Boats)
Then the Mommy’s decide if the $6.50 is killing us. Then they
go to dinner and try to add to the $143,000,000.00 they have
raised so far in order to get reelected. Who do you think they
have dinner with. You know who, it’s the same guys that are
buying dinner for all the Aunt’s and Uncles in Congress, after
all Aunts and Uncles have to get reelected too.

So this Mommy, like all the Mommy’s before and after him
won’t be able to help you with your $6.50 crisis. Mommy’s
too busy raising money with GM and Mobil/Exxon to help.

The only way out of this (long term) is coming from Mommy’s
friends. You see when we show these friends what we want
(cars that don’t use Gas) they will provide the technology to keep
their company’s major suppliers to us and give us what we want.
So until then we can jump up and down and cry, and we can
scream at Mommy to jump up and down and cry in front of that
bad OPEC man, but we need to also understand that the OPEC
man doesn’t give a SH*T how much Mommy jumps up and down.

The world is becoming more and more of a free market. If you want
to talk to it, use the only thing it hears, your pocket book.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Originally posted by aegt5000
This is such B.S. :cry:

I love you guys, but when it comes to stuff like this you sound
like a bunch of kids who are crying because the bad man took
your stuff and YOU WANT MOMMY TO DO SMOETHING.

Why blame GW ? How is he any different than JFK, Johnson,
Nixon, Carter, Reagan, Sr. or Bubba. They all knew these SOB’s
had control of half the worlds oil and we were burning it up as
fast as they could pull it out of the ground. What did they do
back then to prevent us from being held by the balls today ?

What do you expect Mommy to do now ?
Kerry gets on TV and bashes Mommy, then say’s he would
suspend stockpiling oil into the reserve. The Bobble-Heads Cheer!
The reality (and Kerry knows it) is the reserve gets about 5 million
barrels a month. (peanuts compared to our compulsion) this would
have an impact of 2-3 cents per gallon assuming OPEC did not
counter with a tiny cutback to offset this stroke of genius.

You all talk about additives, (about 10 cents a gallon). Is this
dime going to make you all happy ? Now we’re up to 13 cents.
How about 50 cents. Most of America drives around 12K miles
a year. That’s about 1,000 miles a month, 250 miles a week.
(Yeah I know you know somebody who drives 100K a year
but he’s only one vote) At 20 MPG that 250 miles equals about
13 gallons a week and the 50 cents extra means $6.50 a week.

As your neighbor I guess you didnt see the latest utility bill from LIPA with the ****ing gas surchagre did you? Or if you use the Ferry's arcross the sound how much that has changed? It dosent just effect the pump price, it goes across the cost of goods via trucks, trains , Airplanes....it has a dominoe effect.It effects everything!!...how was your heating bill this winter? You missed that huge point that didnt you??

I really woundnt care if it only effected my SUV, Car, Bikes or Tractors but it goes beyond that..

And beside lets just stick with the guy in office now - he is the one that should be dealing with it today - simple as that
Not someone who may or most likely not be in office in janurary..
We have to deal with the summer months NOW !!

Duc
 

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Duc
Do you really think we, as voters, could actually change any of it? Anyone who ever gets elected by promising change either gets stymied by the system or caught up in the money of it themselves. We, as Americans, like to think we are free and have a say in our gov't but the reality is our voices really aren't heard when the gov't doesn't want what we ask for. And no, I'm saying we should just sit back and accept it, but there would need to be some drastic changes in how the gov't conducts business. Since everything gets voted on, it's unlikely tose benefitting from it would ever allow it to happen.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Originally posted by sixchows
Duc
Do you really think we, as voters, could actually change any of it? Anyone who ever gets elected by promising change either gets stymied by the system or caught up in the money of it themselves. We, as Americans, like to think we are free and have a say in our gov't but the reality is our voices really aren't heard when the gov't doesn't want what we ask for. And no, I'm saying we should just sit back and accept it, but there would need to be some drastic changes in how the gov't conducts business. Since everything gets voted on, it's unlikely tose benefitting from it would ever allow it to happen.

This is the classic defeatist attitude that allows for things like this to happen . Its usually followed with complacency..

Well I simply don't accept it from the people who work for me.
I simply replace them if they don't feel they can make a difference or change. What good are they really then? same thing with Gov't...You can train a monkey to be automated..

I'm not picking on your directly Sixchows, you just happen to throw that statement out....

Duc
 

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Here's my take

If you do not vote, you do nothing more that sit back and let it happen. You then should have no say in how this great land is run. Yes your one little vote may not seem like much, but a lot of blood has been shed to afford you and I the privilege of voting.

Yes it is not a perfect system or program. They were set up with nothing but good intentions, it takes people to either make them good or mess them up.

So to sum it up, vote and be part of the solution and not part of the problem. Sorry for the long post.:cheers:
 

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Winston Churchill once said "Democracy is the worst form of government.....................................except for all the others". The way our culture and government operates irritates the hell out of me but I think there is a mountan of truth in Mr. Churchill's statement. Vote...................there is always a candidate that advocates your views. Take a look at the US Constitution Party. Being realistic; probably not much chance of them getting elected but surely voting for them or other candidate is better than not voting at all.
 

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Duc
I'm not saying I agree with it or that I accept it or that I don't vote because I don't feel it will change anything. The point I'm trying to make is even those elected with the best intentions soon realize there's a lot to be gained by going along with the system. Unless most of reps could be changed in a single election the odds are against the few newbies that show up with high hopes for change. Even if someone holds fast to their position they wind up in the minority and nothing gets fixed.
 

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its a tough situation.. In the 70's when gas prices went sky high.. we sort of answered the problem with smaller cars... now we all have trucks SUV's etc.. nothing wrong with that but they slobber gas..

id almost consider one of those hybrid cars if they had any balls and looked nicer.. (i'd still keep my truck to pull the boat and trailer)
 
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