How many hours are considered high???

Discussion in 'Repair & Technical Discussion' started by luckycharms, Jun 16, 2004.

  1. luckycharms

    luckycharms New Member

    65
    Dec 4, 2003
    My brother has been looking at used Ford 4000's, Kubotas and Case tractors. There are dozens for sale with 2K, 3K, and more hours on them.

    Whats considered high hours for a diesel engine?
    Whats considered high hours for a gas engine?

    Intended uses plow & bushhog. Thanks for any input on this.

    -LC
    :lucky: :lucky: :lucky:
     
  2. Chris

    Chris Administrator Staff Member

    Sep 15, 2003
    Good question. :question:

    I don't know exactly --- I think it depends on the engine. You name 3 very different manufacturers up there in Ford, Kubota and Case. Of course it also depends on use, maintenance and age. For a used tractor, overall condition is more/just as important than hours. Having said that and considering engines in general, I would venture that anything over 5000 hours on a gasoline engine may be considered high and might need an overhaul. OTOH it may already have had an overhaul and will be good for many more thousand hours.

    Diesels in general are good for 6000 to 10,000 hours of hard
    work if intensively used and well looked after. Some models will
    exceed 12000 hours between overhauls, especially newer designs. These are just my opinions and may differ from fact or
    case-by-case studies. I am sure you will get plenty of answers on this important hour topic.

    -Andy

    :thumbsup:
     

  3. Ernie

    Ernie New Member

    Mar 18, 2004
    :ditto:

    The company I work for has 3 MFs w/over 13000 hrs. We keep them working with oil, filters and hosed pff every night, or their butts are mine in the AM:D :D

    btw, we change E/oil every 13 days. We use Shell Rotella T, Fram 3600 oil fil. I have been a Perkins fan for over 25 yrs for their reliability.:thumbsup:
     
  4. psrumors

    psrumors New Member

    508
    Apr 25, 2004
    I have a 52 8n with a 4cyl flat head gas burner. It has somewhere between 3 and 4 thousand hours and is in need of a rebuild, 2 years ago (when I bought it) but yet it keeps on ticking. My next door neighbor has a Ford 70 hp diesel that has 7000 hours and runs like new. I looked at a Massey 135 with a perkins diesel, these motors are bullet proof. It had 2200 hours on it and was shot.

    I would say check it out. If the compression is good, hot, cold, wet and dry and the oil pressure is good the motor should be fine for quite a while no matter how many hours are on it. But remember the motor is quite a bit of times the cheaper part to fix of a tractor. Lifts, trans and rearends can get quite expensive. I worry more about the overall condition more so than the hours.

    HTH
     
  5. psrumors

    psrumors New Member

    508
    Apr 25, 2004
    And don't be fooled by an hour meter with no proof. Alot are easy to disconnect or change out all together.
     
  6. Chris

    Chris Administrator Staff Member

    Sep 15, 2003
    What would one use for proof for the hour meter? Same as automobile -- repair receipts? What if all of the work was done by the owner?
     
  7. psrumors

    psrumors New Member

    508
    Apr 25, 2004
    I just suggested not to be fooled by it. A cheap paint job and a new hour meter will fool quite a few people. Me at one time, I think everyone at some time :) Some times it is hard to tell.

    All the items you suggested Admin are nice to have but most of the time not to be had, especially from old farmers. I have known alot of people just because it is low hours or low mileage it has to be a good one. That is not always so.

    I would take a 7000 hour tractor that has been maintained over a 1000 hour tractor that hasn't.
     
  8. Ernie

    Ernie New Member

    Mar 18, 2004



    No truer words, I just put a new hr mtr in a MF 263 @ 13095. We keep a log on each piece of equip. We find that though the hours are very high we get a good resale because of the log @ aution time.
     
  9. Chris

    Chris Administrator Staff Member

    Sep 15, 2003
    Good advice. Is there a standard log book you use for maintenance? That might be a good thread/topic for you to post examples and commentary upon, ErnieG. See if you can work that up as moderator and get it posted.

    Andy
     
  10. Ernie

    Ernie New Member

    Mar 18, 2004
    Sure nuff :)
     
  11. waynl

    waynl New Member

    69
    Jun 1, 2004
    psrumors hit the nail on the head! I've got 4 row-crop JD tractors that do the bulk of the work around here. The oldest, a 4010 just had to be laid-up due to the piston skirt breaking apart in #2 hole. The crank specs like a new one and the bores are only .003 to .004 over spec, and this on a gasoline engine that I figure has at least 18,000 hrs on it. The others, all diesel, haveat least 12,000 hrs on each. I change engine oil spring and fall. All my farmer friends tell me to keep them in mind if I ever decide to sell:cry:

    On the other hand, I recently finished a rebuild on a Kubota that all my machinist friends tell me is bulletproof. They are as long as you check the oil once in a while. Poor thing has only 1500 hrs on it and it looks like it should read 15,000.

    Records go a long way at resale time. I don't have real records, but I'll tell you the truth about when it was when I changed the meters on mine, and with the obvious care they get, most people would not believe me.
     
  12. waynl

    waynl New Member

    69
    Jun 1, 2004
    Sorry lc, I got to tooting my own horn there. (this subject really bugs me with some of my neighbors)

    I think that diesel engines on large tractors generally are good for 7000 to 10,000 hrs with decent care. Smaller tractors with diesels might be good for a little less, say 5k to 8k (most run at higher RPMs). And gasoline tractors good far about 6k to 8k with appropriate care.

    waynl
     
  13. Live Oak

    Live Oak New Member

    Dec 21, 2003
    Lucky,

    These hour figures I don't doubt one bit but they are predicated upon an owner who diligently maintains the machine AND uses good common sense in operating practices. For example, if an owner uses ether to start a diesel engine rather than ensure the glow plugs/grid heaters work properly; 2,000 to 3,000 hours may as well be 20,000 or 30,000 hours. Ether is tremendously damaging to a diesel engine. Once you start using it, the pistons and rings sustain such damage that the engine can no longer be started without ether. Pay close attention to this when you go shopping and look at a potential tractor. If the engine is not stone cold when you get there.........walk away. If the owner uses ether to start it...........walk away. Some diesel engines are more cold natured than others but they should ALL start with the proper application of glow plugs, grid heaters, or OEM start aid. Another dead give away is a lot of vapor and or oil being blown out of the crank case vent tube. Again..........walk away. Waynl is correct; if the owner can show you some kind of maintenance records and/or reciepts for parts, etc.; then more than likely he has taken good care of the machine. When I say walk away, I mean that you either don't want to get involved with the particular machine or you should lower you offering price a comensorate amount to cover the engine rebuild that will be required. If you are fortunate, it may only require an in frame over haul. Just be aware of these other issues that should be considered as well as engine hours.
     
  14. parts man

    parts man Lifetime Supporting Member

    Sep 24, 2003
    Just my opinion, but from what I've heard, Ford 3000-4000 gassers are particularly thirsty!! Like 3-4 times what a 3000-4000 diesel uses!! Just food for thought.;)
     
  15. luckycharms

    luckycharms New Member

    65
    Dec 4, 2003
    Great answers to my questions. I really appreciate the info.
    Will put it to good use and let my brother know the details.

    -LC

    :lucky: :lucky: :lucky:
     
  16. Chris

    Chris Administrator Staff Member

    Sep 15, 2003
    I think you better keep your brother away, Lucky... We can only handle one Irish Jig dancing character here on Tractorforum at a time! :D :D :D

    :furious: :furious: :furious: :furious: :furious: