[John C. Posey]

I have a Ford NAA Tractor. Sad to say, it has been nothing but problems, from the start. I bought it in 2013. Almost from the start, it developed Hydraulic Problems. 3 pt. hitch quit.
Not knowing anything about tractors, I took it to a Tractor Repair Shop. $3000.00 in repairs later, I got it back, the 3 pt. worked for 3 operations. They replaces the pump with a piston pump, new plumbing and said it was good. I might say, part of the $3000.00 was a new clutch.
Having lost faith in the first Tractor Repair Shop, I took it to a Tractor Dealer, who had a good repartition. I had them do a couple things besides the 3 pt. hitch problem. Never the less, it price tag was about $2000.00. I got the tractor home and the 3 pt. worked for about 3 hours, using a back blade to clear snow from the driveway, then quit before we were finished.
The Mechanic, from the Tractor Dealer, came to my place and worked on the tractor for no-charge. He suspected the new pump may have failed, so he removed it and took it to their shop, to test. Pump tested Good. When he returned to re-install the pump, he noticed the Drive Gear at the rear of the engine, would spin freely, as if it was not connected to anything.
The gear has 4 hex-head bolts showing on it's face. They appear to screw into the rear of the engine camshaft.
One person told me the Key was probably sheared. I can't find any reference to a Key in the area of the cam and gear. Another person suggested the end of the camshaft is broken off.
The engine runs great. It's the only part that hasn't given me problems.
I'm hoping some one on this site can give me a clue, before I split the tractor.
Thanks, in advance for any help given. John Posey

 

[pogobill]

Welcome John. I've seemed to have lost you somewhere between the 3 point failing and the cam shaft sheared off at the engine? I get a feeling the the tractor operates perfectly, but the 3 point hitch has failed. If that's the case, you may only need to go in to the transmission / rear end and see what may be wrong in the hydraulic section.
On the other hand, the engine mounted hydraulic pump is run off a gear at the end f the camshaft as you were told. If the is the problem, I would suspect that your proof meter would quit working also.
Do you have a manual to help you with the repairs, or to show you what these guys may be talking about?

 

[John C. Posey]

Correct: The 3 pt. hitch has failed.
A tractor mechanic tested the pump, in shop.
When reinstalling the pump, he noticed the cam mounted gear would spin freely with his finger, as if not attached to anything.
I will be splitting the tractor, in the next few days.
If the rear end of the cam is sheared, that would explain the free wheeling gear.
If the cam is sheared, I'm not sure I am willing to pull the engine to replace it.
I have thought of removing the bucket lift and install it on a IH 2400A I have.
HAHAHA If I can get it to run again.

 

[bbirder]

John,
In looking at a parts breakdown of that engine the camshaft shows a half moon key and 4 bolts holding the gear in place.

https://www.steinertractor.com/FDS3305-Camshaft-with-hardware

be sure to read the specs concerning ID and installation.

https://www.steinertractor.com/FDS3310-Camshaft-Hydraulic-Pump-Drive-Gear

 

[John C. Posey]

John,
In looking at a parts breakdown of that engine the camshaft shows a half moon key and 4 bolts holding the gear in place.

https://www.steinertractor.com/FDS3305-Camshaft-with-hardware

be sure to read the specs concerning ID and installation.

https://www.steinertractor.com/FDS3310-Camshaft-Hydraulic-Pump-Drive-Gear

Thank You for your reply. Looking at the camshaft shown, gave me another impression of just what I will find, after getting the tractor split. I don't believe I had seen such a complete picture of the camshaft. The ones I had seen, didn't show a key, although, a key has been mentioned to me by local farmers and Repair Shop.
Now, I am wondering, if the gear bolts to the end of the camshaft, what purpose does the key serve. The only thing I come up with is if the bolts go into a bearing/sleeve that only holds the gear in place and the actual driving function is accomplished by the Key.
This tractor has been an aggravating and learning experience. I guess many questions will be answered when I get to the bottom of this "Money Pit".
Again, Thank You for your kind help.
The work is slow going. I have COPD and Bad Knees so I have days I find it hard to function.
I had hoped to split this tractor last week, but that didn't happen. Maybe by the end of this week, I hope.

 

[bbirder]

I would think the woodruff key is to keep gear from turning on shaft and bolts prevent it from backing off of shaft. Did you read where they suggest soaking the gear in hot oil before assembly to the shaft. The gear is a press fit also. Best of luck getting your machine running.

 

[John C. Posey]

I looked-up Ford NAA Camshaft Gear, on Steiner's site. They show both front and rear cam gears.
The write-up for the front camshaft gear mentions socking in hot oil, the write-up for the rear camshaft gear does not mention soaking in hot oil. The front gear does have a deep bushing and looks like it would require pressing on. If the rear gear also requires soaking in hot oil, I don't know what I would use to press it on, beyond it being pulled on via tightening the bolts.

Yes, when I originally read that, I was unsure about how it would work, for the rear gear.
Guess I'll soon find out. Thank You for your help. It is helping me to get a better understanding of how it is supposed to be, verses how it is now.

 

[John C. Posey]

I looked-up Ford NAA Camshaft Gear, on Steiner's site. They show both front and rear cam gears.
The write-up for the front camshaft gear mentions soaking in hot oil, the write-up for the rear camshaft gear does not mention soaking in hot oil. The front gear does have a deep bushing and looks like it would require pressing on. If the rear gear also requires soaking in hot oil, I don't know what I would use to press it on, beyond it being pulled on via tightening the bolts.

Yes, when I originally read that, I was unsure about how it would work, for the rear gear.
Guess I'll soon find out. Thank You for your help. It is helping me to get a better understanding of how it is supposed to be, verses how it is now.

 

[bbirder]

You are correct. I read that too fast.

 

[John C. Posey]

First, let me, once more, say "Thank You" for your help.
We started with some, minor disassembly, Draining fluid, removal of the Feed/Return Manifold.
About that time, my neighbor, who is helping me, was asking questions about what I meant, when I said the gear moved freely. I removed the hydraulic pump and showed him the gear and problem.
While I had the pump off, I cleaned the gasket surface and found the "Hydraulic Gear Housing" has a sizable Crack on opposing sides. The cracks go completely through the cast iron. A couple more inches and they would meet.
I have ordered a "New" housing, due here Friday. I'll take it to the Tractor Dealer to have the shaft and support bearings installed and the whole thing resembled. They have a Hydraulics Shop and if any of the parts need pressed in-place, they are equipped to do it, as well as determine if any parts have worn.
I'm glad we found the Crack, all though it is another delay and expense.
I was out working on the Tractor today, didn't get much done. With my bad knees making it hard and painful to move around the beast, added to whoever installed the screws and bolts holding the Engine cover in place, over tightening them and stripping a couple, it took me almost 3 hours to remove 12 bolts and screws total. Different sizes used on same piece, etc.. Well, The guy who worked on my tractor last, isn't there anymore.
I hope you don't mind me giving you a running up-date and in such detail.

John

 

[John C. Posey]

I have been entering messages in the Introductions Column. Finally found this spot to message in.
My messages have been concerning problems with a Ford NAA Tractor 3 pt. hitch not operating, an the many times it has been worked on , by several "Tractor Mechanics" and the problem returning within a day or two.

Yesterday, Two men, My Neighbor and myself, knowing next too nothing about working on tractors.
We split the tractor, with many hold-ups, along the way. Very much a learning experience.
Once the tractor was split, we removed the clutch and flywheel, lined -up the notch on the crankshaft and removed the cam mounted hydraulic drive gear cover.
As soon as the cover was off, we went to remove the 4 bolts holding the drive gear and found all 4 bolts sheered, plus one of the gear teeth and a piece of another, laying loose. The gear had somehow sheered a tooth+.
I have been lead to believe there is a Woodruff Key installed in this area to prevent the attachment point of cam and gear. I saw no sign of a Key.

Now, my question is, does this tractor use a Key or was that only on older models.
If there is a Key, I want to install anew one while the Tractor is split.
Another thing we found was the Hydraulic gear housing had 2 cracks, one on each opposing sides. The cracks were all the way through the casting, a couple more inches and they would have joined.

This tractor has been trouble since day 1 and a sizable Money Pit.

Any help/advise will be appreciated.

 

[John C. Posey]

Update: Ford NAA Tractor is still split and sitting in the garage.
I decided, since it was apart and things are easy to reach, I'm putting in New Gauges and Meters, the missing Tach cable and a new wring harness. Took time, to locate the parts I wanted, more time for Shipment. I was going to replace the Oil Pressure Sending Unit. Took a long time looking for one. After looking and then, with more research, I learned there IS NO oil pressure sending unit. I'm told the tube to the gauge-from engine, goes directly from engine to oil gauge. I had a hard time believing this, but was convinced that the Operation does not send oil into the gauge. It uses pressure from the block to enter the tube and pressurize the air in the tube. The air pressure is what operates the gauge. I haven't been able to buy this 100%, yet. I'm at a "wait and see" stage. Still waiting on the hydraulic pump to be returned, plus the gaskets I need to replace, the ones ruined on disassembly or missing at disassembly .
The Hydraulic pump, hot weather , inside garage gets very, very HOT, add to that My Bad Knees and COPD and it is very slow going. 8/6/2019, I go in for more knee examination and possibly a Cortisone Shots in both knees. I sure hope they work! The shot he gave me the last time, didn't help. If Cortisone doesn't work, I think my last option is Knee Replacements.
Wish me luck! I hope this week, the pump come back and my knees feel well enough to work on it. In reality, my Neighbor (37 yr. old and good shape) does all the work. I have only been able to do minimum things and find and hand him tools. Don't know what I would do without him. He is a tremendously good neighbor.
I'll continue this saga as it progresses.
Thanks for all your Likes, Comment and Assistance.

 

[pogobill]

Have you tried a knee brace, or something along that line? It's hard when the legs go. Mine are starting to rebel these days as well.

 

[John C. Posey]

The answer to that would be a : Yes, sort of. Meaning: I have tried a bunch of OTC knee support/braces, so, thinking of that, and the results, in Reality, No.
I spoke with the Doctor, last Friday, he is suggesting Cortisone shots, this time and if that doesn't work, I think he will go with the Professional Knee Braces, not the Mickey Mouse things I tried.
After the Cortisone, if that doesn't relieve the pain, I believe my last option is Surgery .
I have been avoiding surgery, like the plague. But, if you are at your end of options, you do the Unthinkable.
I would suggest having your knees examined by a Doctor, Now, before it gets out-of-hand.
I had Torn the Cartilage in both knees, at separate times. I had the Arthroscopic Surgery, each time. Some swear by it. Didn't work very well for me. I continued to have pain most of the time. Now it has gotten severe.

On a lighter note, I decided to finally Replace the Steering wheel on the old Ford. The one on it now is half coated, half bare steel. It has a loader on it, really Too Big, for this size tractor and without Power Steering, it becomes nearly impossible to steer with the bucket full of gravel.
Also, it's weight, full or empty, shifts all the weight forward, lightens the weight on the rear wheels to the point there is little traction. Loader was on it when I bought it.
If we can get this thing back together, it will have a New Hydraulic Drive gear, all New Gauges, New Tach, and a New Wiring Harness.

Thank You for writing and suggesting the knee braces. I appreciate your interest.
When you lose the ability to walk and stand, for any length of time, it makes life very hard.
I'm fortunate to have the neighbor I have. Don't know what I would/could do without him.

 

[John C. Posey]

Haven't accomplished any more on the old Ford. Temps have been in the high 90's and low 100's. plus the New gear and my Hydraulic Pump hasn't arrive , yet. Main thing is the Hydraulic Drive Gear, s I can start reassembling this monster-$$-Pit.
I admit to a little vanity, concerning the repair of the Old Ford. After so many different people, calling themselves Tractor Mechanics, have worked on this problem, without success, it would feel great to finally have it working correctly, from my, neighbors and this site's efforts!!

My one big question left, is finding a list of torque values for the various parts removed. Don't really like the old-time system of tighten to one grunt or on some item 2 1/2 grunts. Many bolts have met the demise that way.

 

[John C. Posey]

Newest snag in this project. My NAA has the old cam gear, with 1/4" bolts and bolt holes. It seems they are now made of Unobtainum. The newer gear, with 5/16" holes and bolts, cost anywhere from $50-$70. The only one available with 1/4" holes and bolts is $245. Go Figure???
Another surprise to make life interesting.

 

[pogobill]

Unobtainum. I think you need to talk to the folks that print the "Periodic Table"!!
Too funny...
Sorry for your woes!

 

[John C. Posey]

That is what we used to call anything that was Excessively High $$$ or Hard to Find or Obtain. It was meant to be Funny. I would like to have used ROFL Emoticon, but there isn't one listed.
I'm starting to expect things to go wrong, with this tractor. Almost, like it is cursed.

I talked with the Shop Supervisor, today. He has every thing under control. He was trying to save me some $$$, and find a cheaper one and eliminate ordering from different sources and save me $$$ on multiple shippers.
Since I'm getting a little antsy to put this thing together, or to sleep, I told him to get the High $$ one and be done with it.
Long ago, I learned that, Persistence will always over-come Resistance. As long as I continue to chip away at these problems, I will eventually run-out of problems, or $$$, which ever comes first. HAHAHAHA

 

[John C. Posey]

I thank everyone who has read and Replied and/or Liked my Posts. I do Appreciate the likes and Replies. This site and the members have helped me to learn and understand this beast better than ever before. With your help and encouragement, I can't lose,,,,,,,,I hope.

 

[John C. Posey]

Here I am, over 2 weeks later and No Real Progress to report.
The Hydraulic Pump is still at the Tractor Dealers, Hydraulic Shop. They report, difficulty finding the parts they need to do a proper swap, of the gear housing. One Parts Dealer, after another, say they have the parts on-hand, but never send promised parts. The Mechanic has had to, Start from square-one, over and over. One part that is proving to be very elusive is the Drive Gear with 1/4" bolt holes. mis-communication between he and I, lead to one delay. I hope he understands, I want the New Gear, before I can put the old beast back together. I may have confused the issue, once again, by mentioning I had found a Used Gear for $25, verses the New Gear at $245. I did tell him I want the New Gear.
I didn't tell him, yet, that I later bought the Used Gear. I was hoping it was in good shape, but when it arrived, I found considerable wear on some of the gear-teeth. There is a ridge on one side of some teeth, where the gear has been worn. Ridge is about 1/16" high. The surface of the Gear, over-all, indicate it underwent a considerable amount of cleaning of probably oil crud build-up.
In Short, I'm not wanting to use this gear. I feel I would only be installing Future Trouble.