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I would be very careful about rotating the engine with the head removed without securing the liners with hold down washers on the head bolts. You can actually raise a liner from ring drag if the liners aren't fitted tightly in the seals. We used to change liners in Detroit Diesels by running the piston to bottom dead center and placing a small length of bar stock on top the piston and rotating the crank and the piston lifted the liner out of the block.
 

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Just looking at the pictures I would hesitate to venture much of a guess.
But I would be concerned with the condition of the o-rings for the sleeves.
Your leak could have been the head gasket but I'm not convinced of that.
Even just pulling the sleeves and replacing them would be a minor expense even if not replacing the sleeves and pistons.

As far as most engines being parent bore any more I consider that a way for the manufactures to cheapen up again.
I much prefer a wet sleeve engine I have found them to generally be less expensive to rebuild then a parent bore and
a lot less machine shop expenses.
 

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As far as most engines being parent bore any more I consider that a way for the manufactures to cheapen up again.
I much prefer a wet sleeve engine I have found them to generally be less expensive to rebuild then a parent bore and
a lot less machine shop expenses.
Absolutely. Less machining equals less expense for the manufacturer. My issue with a parent bore engine (diesel) has always been cooling. A liner exposed to coolant cools better versus a parent bore engine. Easier to rebuild as well.
 

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I'd pull the pan next and have a look see, especially looking at the first and second cylinders. Like I said, when you get corrosion on the studs like you have, that is indicative of a coolant leak. Studs are not supposed to rust.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Hello all,

Thanks very much for all your thoughts and advice - I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out, here.

It seems likely to me that there are multiple failure points, here - the head gasket was one and, as many of you suggest, the liners (or at least one if them) are another.

When I drop the sump, I'll fill the block with coolant and see where it comes out. The coolant seems to be getting into the sump quite quickly (half a litre or so overnight), so hopefully it'll be easy to spot where the leak is.

If I have to replace the liners, should I replace the pistons as well? I notice most rebuild kits that contain liners also contain pistons... With new liners and piston rings, presumably the engine will have to go through a run-in period again?

Thanks for your help
:)
 

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There is also the cavitation issue to be aware of:

I have now found comments about the liner seat on these engines, and that if the seat is damaged (see attached picture) it requires machining in order to seal against the liner lip.

Luckily, you live in Leyland-land. I would contact a machine shop with knowledge about these engines and ask for advice. There is often (always) some uniqe tricks and tips when it comes to engine restoration.The restorer I linked to was just an example, a random interwebs hit.

Please, keep us posted, this is interesting.

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My rule of thumb on a wet linered engine (I have 3) is, I always add Cummins DCA4 (which is Potassium Permagnate in distilled water in specific quantity to the coolant. I use a DCA test kit (which is nothing more than Ph test strips) that determine the specific gravity of the coolant solution in respect to the amount of DCA4 in it and the kit has a chart to compare the test strips to the concentration.

Been doing that for years and pre measured DCA4 units are cheap. The DCA4 'coats the liners' with a film that prevents cavitation (which is tiny bubbles that form from overheated coolant that attach themselves to the liner walls and 'explode' and exposes the metal to corrosion).

DCA4 also prevents coolant (conventional green) from breaking down. Global, long life coolant (red-orange) comes 'precharged' with it in the jug. Conventional green glycol don't.

Liner cavitation is an issue especially in diesels that are worked hard with high cylinder temperatures. If you don't work an engine hard, the need for DCA is minimal but if you do, I suggest adding it. It's available world wide from Cummins Engine Company and I believe it's also on Amazon, though I purchase mine locally.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Hello chaps,

As always, your knowledge is very welcome 👍

I'd read about liner cavitation and ringing, but I'd not seen the effects before. I'm not sure I understand how cavitation corrosion would allow oil and coolant to mix unless it went all the way through the liner - I can't see any obvious evidence of that in my engine.

I see the Goodwin tractors website says liner seals can fail due to overheating, though...I think it's safe to assume any faultassociated with overheating will probably be in evidence, here!

I might drop the sump on Wednesday, so I'll update you then, if I do.

Thanks:)
 

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Very interesting thread. Thanks for keeping us informed of progress.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
An interim update on dropping the sump:

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Unbolting it was no problem, but getting out from under the tractor is proving a bit of a puzzle. There's just not enough clearance to get it out past the steering...

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...because it's tight up against the frame at the back.

I've tried lifting both ends to tilt it but that doesn't help. I've put the steering as far over as I can, but it's just not far enough. I can't believe I've got to remove the steering arm just to get the sump out, but it's starting to look a bit that way...

If anybody has any ideas, I'm very much open to suggestions!

Thanks
:)
 

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I've saw this situation lots of times in cars/trucks. Looks like steering removal to me.
 
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Discussion Starter · #34 · (Edited)
Luckily, I managed to figure it out - the sump was jamming the steering by hooking over the ball joint nut...when I got somebody to watch it while I turned the steering, it was obvious...it's still a pretty tight fit, though!

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Here it is, off. I'm not sure about this plate, tack welded inside it...

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...it looks like it's been added on later, but you'd have to know what you were doing to start welding plates inside sumps, I would have thought...

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Rattling about in the bottom of the sump was this...about a quarter of what looks like an oil control ring...so that's not great.

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The bottom end of my engine...it's all getting a bit serious now. You probably recognise all the bits better than I do, but that's the oil pump and balance gears, then the crank shaft and big ends behind it.

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This is looking up, past the crankshaft, at the cam shaft and the bottom of the forward-most piston in its liner. You can see coolant drips around the piston rim, but this is the one I pulled the injector sleeve out of and flooded with coolant - I can't see any evidence of coolant around the liner/block joint.

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This is the piston at the rear end of the engine.

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This is one of the centre cylinders - they're both at TDC, so you can only see the liner. I couldn't see any obvious evidence of leaking around any of the liners; I filled the block with water and left it all afternoon with a tray under it and all that dripped out was oil, but it's very hard to tell...

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Onto the next job, which was cleaning the head and measuring it for obvious signs of warping...

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I fairly delicately scraped all the burnt on gasket and carbonised filth off with a pallette knife, as suggested, washed it all down in a petrol bath and then used a straight edge and feeler gauges to check the face along its length and across it.

The maximum bow permitted in the engine specs longitudinally, transverse and diagonal is 0.001" per foot. My feeler gauges only go down to 0.002", but there was no gap under the straight edge (which I'd checked against a lathe bed for straightness) I was using in any direction, so I'm going to stick my neck out and say the head hasn't warped; I still need to check the block face, though...

I obviously need to pull the pistons, now, to find which one's got a snapped ring, but fair enough. The valves seem to be standing out from the head face a bit - should they be?

I'm starting to convince myself that it might just be a damaged head gasket which, combined with a snapped piston ring, is letting coolant through into the sump. Maybe that injector sleeve was leaking, too?

Once I've removed the pistons, removing the liners doesn't really look that hard, but is it worth the cost (or the risk of making a backside of putting them back in again) if they might be OK anyway? Of course, if there's a load of water under the engine tomorrow, that's a question that'll have answered itself...

As always, thoughts, advice and observations are very welcome!

Thanks
:)
 

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You need to clean the sludge out of the pan and that plate is an oil baffle. Valves will always sit proud of the head a bit (when closed) on all engines, remember the seats and valve faces are tapered, not flat. That oil control ring came from somewhere and probably scored the liner on it's way out as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Yep, good call - the sump is next on my list of things to clean. I was surprised the baffle in the sump is just tack welded in, but I guess that's just a feature of its age...

I'll try and get some better pictures of the inside of the liners and see if any scoring is visible...

Thanks for your help :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
After a bit of a pause, another update...

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To get at the con-rod bolts, you have to remove the crankshaft balancer gears and the oil-pump. The first job is to align all the timing marks, which are stamped on pretty much all the gears - a single dot on one gear and a double on its partner, as seen here on the gear that drives the balancer gears.

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With the balancer driving gear removed, the next job is to withdraw the driveshaft (on the left hand side in the picture here).

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First, you remove this balancer-shaft end-cover, its oil pipe and the oil pipe from the pump.

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Next, you rotate the balancer gears 180 degrees from their timing-mark positions and remove the two allen-head screws in each one, holding them onto their respective shafts. I now have both the engine service manual and the tractor service manual and they differ slightly in what order you should do this, so I'm sort of following both. It was also at this point that I realised I'd lost my imperial allen-keys and had to wait a week for a new set to turn up from Amazon...hence the pause.

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There isn't enough clearance to fully withdraw the drive shaft, but there's more than enough to remove the RHS balancer gear and its thrust washers. The drive shaft moves easily through its bushes, but is a tight fit in the gear, so takes a bit of knocking through with a drift. The LHS shaft is shorter and is removed with similar effort - with both gears removed, you can get at the balancer gear retaining bracket and remove it. The bracket and the crankshaft support at this point are all one part, so they come out together, leaving good access to the big ends.

Apparently, I can only upload 10 pictures per post, so that's the end of this one...
 

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