Ford 601 dead

Discussion in 'Ford / New Holland' started by ZombiePopper, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. ZombiePopper

    ZombiePopper New Member

    23
    Jun 23, 2017
    I have a 58 641 workmaster that's been a fairly reliable tractor. I decided to switch it from 6v to 12v and bought a kit that included everything, including a wire harness, since my original harness was tired.
    The swap was fairly straightforward and pretty easy. After the swap the 601 fired up fast and ran like a top. But after running for about 20mins, it died and it won't even crank. It's completely dead and won't do anything.
    I've got spare solenoids, 12v batteries, coils, ignition switch, etc but swapping parts has done nothing. It's still won't crank. I've double and triple checked everything.
    My question is; is there a nss (neutral safety switch) on 601's? Is there a way to bypass the push button to test it? I'm suspecting the push button may be bad?
    Thanks for any advice
     
  2. ZombiePopper

    ZombiePopper New Member

    23
    Jun 23, 2017
    Can a mod move my post to the Ford section? I just saw the sticky.
    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017

  3. sixbales

    sixbales Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2011
    Howdy ZombiePopper, welcome to the tractor forum.

    When depressed (with the trans in neutral), the starter button on top of the transmission provides a ground circuit for the solenoid coil. The starter switch has a built-in safety feature.....you can only push it down when the transmission is in neutral. You may have to wiggle the shift lever fore and aft a bit to get everything to line up where the button will push down.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
    ZombiePopper likes this.
  4. ZombiePopper

    ZombiePopper New Member

    23
    Jun 23, 2017
    Thanks for the welcome.
    The starter button will depress, but it won't crank. I've tried moving the shifter around. But still it won't even crank.
    Is there a way to bypass the starter button? I've noticed my starter button sticks, which is why I suspect it may be faulty.
    What else could prevent it from cranking (besides the solenoid, battery or ignition switch since I've swapped known good parts on)?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  5. tractor beam

    tractor beam ENGLISH SPRINGER SPANIELS Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2010
    Priest River, Idaho
    Thread moved.
     
    ZombiePopper likes this.
  6. sixbales

    sixbales Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2011
    All you have to do is touch the wire attached to the starter button to ground to bypass the starter button.

    Other than the items you mentioned, the battery cables may be corroded internally and not delivering power. Also, I have had a battery that voltage dropped to zero when a minor load was applied. Internal battery problem.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
    ZombiePopper likes this.
  7. ZombiePopper

    ZombiePopper New Member

    23
    Jun 23, 2017
    I appreciate the input guys.
    I grounded the starter button, but Nada. Still won't crank.
    I'll swap the battery out of my jeep tomm (750cca) and see if she'll crank-I hope.
    I've ran my multimeter all around my connections, i have power in all the right spots and everything looks fine- I'm stumped.
    But, I'm not seeing any load being drawn with key 'on' and hitting the start button. There should be SOME kind of load...
    I'm also going to replace my starter cable, it's showing some age.
    There's no fuses on a 601, is there? Should my ignition switch be a 12v unit? I'm still running the 6v unit.
     
  8. BigT

    BigT Member

    674
    Sep 15, 2014
    To bypass the starter solenoid, take a screwdriver and jumper it across the heavy cable terminals on the starter solenoid. Make sure the tranny is in neutral
     
    ZombiePopper likes this.
  9. ZombiePopper

    ZombiePopper New Member

    23
    Jun 23, 2017
    OK the plot thickens.
    (I've used the old screwdriver trick on old ford cars and trucks and thought about it on this 601. But I was always told its bad for the starter and solenoid?)
    But I went ahead and tried it anyway. But here's the kicker, it did nothing, not even sparks at the screwdriver shafts. I tried it with the wire on the starter button and then grounded. I swapped on 2 other solenoids and still nothing.
    Any idea guys?
     
  10. BigT

    BigT Member

    674
    Sep 15, 2014
    You have 12V to the solenoid? The starter must be open circuit? Check it with your ohmmeter.
     
    ZombiePopper likes this.
  11. ZombiePopper

    ZombiePopper New Member

    23
    Jun 23, 2017
    OK update: so after messing with it and swapping batteries, I am getting 12v on the battery side of the solenoid.
    Using the screwdriver I am now getting sparks and the starter spinning.
    BUT, the starter button isn't working.
    And the bendix isn't coming out and spinning the flywheel.
    Is starter or starter button faulty? Or both?
    In the past,
    I'd smack a stuck starter with a hammer...
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
  12. harry16

    harry16 Member

    429
    Dec 7, 2011
    Hello ZombiePopper,

    You can get a new starter pushbutton at your New Holland dealership. If not, Messicks (New Holland Dealership) has them for $32. Also, check the internet, including ebay. They have aftermarket switches for less than the dealership price.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
    ZombiePopper likes this.
  13. ZombiePopper

    ZombiePopper New Member

    23
    Jun 23, 2017
    Thanks I'll check those places for a new button.
    Hopefully it's just the button and not my starter?
     
  14. FredM

    FredM Registered User

    494
    Nov 18, 2015
    Rangewood
    ZombiePopper -- if the starter is spinning as it should, this would show the starter is ok, just seems like the Bendix is stuck, this may need a cleanup and lube, not with oil or grease though, RP7 or WD40 will do the trick.

    Should you remove the starter, and the Bendix has the one way clutch, check to see that this is not slipping, you should feel slight resistance one way and the other way should not slip at all.

    it is obvious that the starter button is kaput and I would also get into the load carrying wiring from battery to solenoid and the earth side wiring also, if you have a good set of jumper leads, these can be a help by connecting between battery positive to the solenoid connection and from battery earth to a good earth on the tractor, this will show if the leads are faulty, use both together to test and remove either to check out the cables.

    There should be no problem with 12 volts passing through your ignition switch.

    you could also fit a standard starter switch to the tractor and bypass the safety starter switch, BUT!!, doing that will remove the safety factor unless you were to wire this through the ignition switch as a safety precaution.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
    sixbales, HarveyW and ZombiePopper like this.
  15. ZombiePopper

    ZombiePopper New Member

    23
    Jun 23, 2017
    Great info, thanks.
    All my wiring on the starting/charging side is new now. But the safety feature doesn't really bother me, so I think I'd like to keep it.
    I really appreciate all the info Fred.
    And everyone that replied.
    I've got some parts to order and I'll update later.
    Thanks
     
  16. Graysonr

    Graysonr Registered User

    38
    Mar 31, 2017
    Here's what my dad and I did with his 9N back in the day. Make dam sure the transmission is in neutral. Jump start by running jumper cable ground to a good ground on the chassis, and hit the "hot" jumper to the hot wire connection on the starter. Tractor starter should turn over the engine and give you another point to start the process of elimination in troubleshooting.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
    ZombiePopper likes this.
  17. rogerru

    rogerru Member

    31
    Dec 22, 2016
    the mystery is that, per what you've said, it worked fine first time/one time. but not the second. so, what changed or went bad in that short time? your push button switch is just a ground. it's the yellow wire off the little post on the solenoid and is always hot. as has been said, take the wire off the button and touch it elsewhere for a spark/spin. also, try bypassing the just installed resister. if your solenoid has 2 little posts, disconnect orange/left wire that goes to the junction. if your starter drive is bad the starter will either (usually) just spin or be stuck making the starter get hot fast. with a volt meter, just follow the "juice trail". from 6v to 12v you should only need to change what comes in the kit. as far as starting/charging goes, you don't need to change solenoid, coil, switches, etc. don't have a kit resister and a resister coil. that tries to drop voltage twice to the points. but that's a starting item not cranking. these are just suggestions of things to investigate.
     
    ZombiePopper likes this.
  18. deerhide

    deerhide Retired Canadian

    44
    Oct 20, 2016
    To bypass your ignition switch; run a wire from pos. battery post to the coil ON THE SIDE AWAY FROM THE DISTRIBUTOR!.Jumper cable from pos. battery to starter. If it just whirls and doesn't engage remove starter, wash bendix in diesel or gas, not WD, and try again. If it's a no-go tow it and if it still won't start the 12v change may of ff'ed up the points. You should put on a condenser to drop point voltage to 6.
     
    ZombiePopper likes this.
  19. duke7595

    duke7595 Member

    57
    Jan 22, 2012
    If you have spark at the points with key to on position, than your key switch should be good.
    To check, use a screw driver to touch the point contacts, it should give a small spark.
    From reading the other posts it sounds like you have a faulty starter and or bendix.
    Let us know how you make out, and good luck.
     
    ZombiePopper likes this.
  20. butchfig8

    butchfig8 New Member

    4
    Mar 28, 2007
    Multimeter is a high resistance device, use meter in parallel with like 5k res
    to put some load on test point, when testing for volts, starter / bendix should work out of tractor.
     
    ZombiePopper likes this.