Featured ford 3000 engine?

Discussion in 'Introductions' started by mmm_max, Sep 30, 2017.

  1. mmm_max

    mmm_max New Member

    6
    Sep 30, 2017
    I have an old ford tractor with '3400' on the tin. I bought it used and have been using it for 20 years. The engine is a 3 cyl diesel and its getting a bit tired so I thought of a winter project to do an in-frame recondition. I cannot seem to find any description of the engine on the net!!?

    Despite having all the tractor info, there seems to be shortage of into on this engine even tho I see lots of these tractor driving around. The info on the tractor is:

    tractor # C456966
    model C4012k
    engine 5A23C

    Is it a perkins? Are there kits available? Is it worth a rebuild? Can it be done in-frame?
    Help is appreciated!

    Thanks,
    Max
     
  2. pogobill

    pogobill Registered User Staff Member

    Jan 31, 2012
    Welcome to the forum!
    According to your numbers, you have as follows:
    C456966 Is a USA made tractor, serial number 456966 puts it in 1975
    C4012K
    C=3000 series
    40=Utility version
    1= Diesel, I believe was a Ford 3cylinder 175 Cu.in.
    2= trans 540 PTO
    K-6/4 manual reversing transmision

    5A23C is a date code January 23, afternoon shift.

    Here's a link to one of the many parts suppliers as an example.
    http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/store/model_parts.cgi?SearchArea=Ford&md=3000&cat=kits
    Around here, they are all worth rebuilding!!
     

  3. Ultradog

    Ultradog Member

    116
    Feb 27, 2005
    It is not a Perkins. It is a Ford designed and built engine. It is 175 ci.
    A 3400 is a 3000 with a heavier front axle.
    Parts are readily available for them.
    Consider this though:
    Those diesel engines are well known for cavitation problems. The vibration of the diesels caused microscopic bubbles to form which eroded the water jacket and frequently perforated/rusted through the cylinder wall. The problem was preventable by adding a bottle of coolant treatment to the radiator but that often/usually was never done.
    What this means on a reman is it is NOT recommended that you bore and use oversized pistons. What IS recommended is to bore and sleeve back to standard.
    I know you stated you would just like to do an inframe on this engine. But if you find your bores are too worn for that and decide to to go farther do Not trust a shop that is willing to just bore and go with oversized pistons as they do not know the history of these engines.
    I too recommend yesterdaystractors.com as a very good source for parts for that machine.
    By the way, I have a couple of sets of new, standard diesel pistons that would fit your engine that I would let go of pretty reasonable.
    Those 3000/3400s are great, very reliable old tractors.
     
    dozer966 and sixbales like this.
  4. mmm_max

    mmm_max New Member

    6
    Sep 30, 2017
     
  5. mmm_max

    mmm_max New Member

    6
    Sep 30, 2017
    Thanks for the 'heads' up on the bore. I have mostly rebuilt Detroit 2 cycles where there are cylinder liners so I assumed this was the case!
     
  6. mmm_max

    mmm_max New Member

    6
    Sep 30, 2017
     
  7. mmm_max

    mmm_max New Member

    6
    Sep 30, 2017
    I checked out the link to the rebuild kit and did note that there were no cylinder liners in the kit so it must be the cylinders are bored into the block. I also noted that there were no bearings (rod+mains) in the kit. This seemed odd, I was assuming that I could do the bottom end too without separating the tractor!
     
  8. Hacke

    Hacke Member

    109
    Feb 22, 2011
    A data sheet from N Tractor Club:
    http://www.ntractorclub.com/forums/manuals/messages/5436.html

    First, check the engine's serial number (on the left side of engine, just above the oil pan).
    The first letter tells you which tractor model the block originally was made for:
    L or B : 2000
    N or C : 3000
    P or D : 4000

    If the first letter is L, B, N or C, search for the letters SB somewhere near the engine's serial number.

    If the first letter is L, B, N or C, and the SB letters are not present, the block was originally bored 4.2", no sleeve.
    If the first letter is L, B, N or C, and the SB letters are present, the block was originally bored 4.4" and sleeved to 4.2".
    If the first letters are P or D, the block was originally bored 4.4", no sleeve.

    Download a Workshop Manual via the pdf link (Verkstadshandbok_ ... 3_4000.pdf) here:
    http://www.fordson.se/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7926
    It does not cover 3400 in detail. 3000 models share the same type of engine, so the engine part for 3000 should work for 3400 as well.
    Paragraph 91 (pages 33-34) has some boring information...
    ===
    Edit:
    The Shop Manual can now be downloaded from the Manuals section:
    https://www.tractorforum.com/manuals/categories/ford.1/
    ===

    My guess:
    Some blocks bored 4.4" (for the 4000 model) showed casting imperfections. Instead of reboring and sleeving to 4.4", they sleeved them as they were to 4.2" for the 2000 and 3000 models.
    I think the SB stamped blocks are rare, but you are better safe then sorry.

    Anyhow, the SB blocks have this type of sleeve (see 21A in attached pdf):
    D0NN6055A SLEEVE Block, Service only, Use w/Blocks Rebored to 4.4" (111.76mm), 4.2 ID x 4.4 OD, 2000-3000, Start Year: 01-JAN-65
    This type of sleeve might have been used later on. Either a 2000-3000 block has been rebored to 4.4", or a 4000 block has been used. In the latter case the serial number on the block starts with P or D.

    A non SB block might have been refurbished later on with (see 21A in attached pdf):
    C5NN6055A SLEEVE Block, Service only, 4.2 Bore, 4.1 I.D. x 4.32 O.D. 2000-3000, Start Year: 01-JAN-65

    The block might have been rebored for oversized pistons, or just honed and fitted with the 0.004" oversized pistons.

    You need to measure and investigate what is in the block.
    Then you know what to order.



    If you are planning a job of this magnitude, I advise you to split the tractor. You mentioned replacing the main bearings, then a split is a must. Even if you do not do the main bearings, you will later regret that you did not split the tractor when the rear main bearing seal leaks or the core plug at the back of the block leaks or the clutch gives you trouble...
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
    sixbales likes this.
  9. mmm_max

    mmm_max New Member

    6
    Sep 30, 2017
    You are correct in saying "a job of this magnitude" and get the rear seal concept. I have a '83 MB in pristine condition with a leaky rear seal. Unfortunately the seal on that needs the crank pulled so thats not happening!
    Question? How could you replace pistons without removing the oil pan casting? I guess it gets down to that. Can an "in-frame" even be done on these engines? If I have to separate the tractor to do pistons, I think I will just do a head job. Thanks for the link!
    Max
     
  10. Ultradog

    Ultradog Member

    116
    Feb 27, 2005
    You can do pistons or rings and rod bearings without pulling the engine.
     
  11. Hacke

    Hacke Member

    109
    Feb 22, 2011
    I am not familiar with the industrials. I am more used to 4000 agriculture, and there the oil pan is easily removed after you push the front casting a bit forward. With the tractor slightlly lifted and supported under the transmission, use longer bolts (or threaded rod) holding the front and slide it forward.

    As I understand it, on the 3400 the oil pan is part of the construction and is bolted front and back. I cannot give any advice.
     
  12. wjjones

    wjjones Moderator Staff Member

    May 27, 2010
    Welcome to the Forum..
     
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