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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently Changed all the fluids in my Ford 1600 tractor. The other day my hydraulic lift wouldn't work at all and upon inspection I found the reservoir was extremely low. I also checked the transmission level and it was overfull and foaming. I filled the Hydraulic reservoir and it worked fine. However transmission fluid started running out as I was mowing. Somehow the Hydraulic fluid is getting into the transmission/rear end reservoir. I don't know how this can happen as they are separate units. I assume the foaming is coming from cross contamination of the two different fluids. Help!!!
 
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Hello Louis, and welcome to the Tractor Forum. We have some very knowledgeable and experienced members and although I am not familiar with your tractor, I'm sure one or more of the members will help.

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The Shibaura built Ford 1600 has an interconnected hydraulic chamber and gear case chamber in the transmission housing. They fill separately, but the fluid levels will equalize as you operate the tractor. Both the transmission and hydraulics use the same oil, originally MC2-134A. The latest version of New Holland universal tractor fluid is the same thing, as is generic Universal Tractor Fluid with the New Holland spec stated as being met (I know of none that do not).

Do not use 80 or 90 wt oil in the rear compartment, as it will mix with the universal tractor fluid from the front compartment and foam.

If the unit has had the rear compartment filled with gear oil, drain it and also drain the hydraulic fluid, as it will be contaminated. Then refill both compartments with UTF.

When you fill and check, do so on a level surface and do not fully insert the front dipstick when checking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The Shibaura built Ford 1600 has an interconnected hydraulic chamber and gear case chamber in the transmission housing. They fill separately, but the fluid levels will equalize as you operate the tractor. Both the transmission and hydraulics use the same oil, originally MC2-134A. The latest version of New Holland universal tractor fluid is the same thing, as is generic Universal Tractor Fluid with the New Holland spec stated as being met (I know of none that do not).

Do not use 80 or 90 wt oil in the rear compartment, as it will mix with the universal tractor fluid from the front compartment and foam.

If the unit has had the rear compartment filled with gear oil, drain it and also drain the hydraulic fluid, as it will be contaminated. Then refill both compartments with UTF.

When you fill and check, do so on a level surface and do not fully insert the front dipstick when checking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
First of all thanks for the advice. My Operators Manual says to use a Hydraulic oil (Ford M-2C41-A) in the hydraulic system and a SAE 80 or 140 in the transmission and rear axle. So if i'm understanding you correctly you are saying for me to drain the oils from all the compartments and replace with a UTF fluid like the Traveller Universal tractor Trans/Hydraulic fluid sold at TSC. If this is correct it seems reasonable to me.
Question: When I had changed the fluids I had put the recommended oils in according to the operators manual. I know now that if they mixed it caused the foaming. But if the compartments are connected why did the Hydraulic compartment get so very low (about 2" from the bottom) and the transmission get overfull? I just want to make sure i"m gonna do the right thing by draining and replacing all the fluids because it is pretty costly. Ill wait for your reply before proceeding. Thanks again
 

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It is a Ford approved practice to put UTF (equivalent to Ford spec 134D) in the hydraulic reservoir, transmission, and rear end. I have been using UTF in all sections on my Ford tractor for the past 25-30 years.

Your manual cannot be correct telling you to put gear oil in the transmission and UTF in the hydraulic reservoir, where the fluid is shared/mixed together. Engineers do not like to mix oils, because you can come up with an adverse reaction, which may be your problem.

Have you checked the suction screen (item #15 on attached parts diagram)? If its never been cleaned, it may be badly sludged up.
 

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Quote: "I know now that if they mixed it caused the foaming. But if the compartments are connected why did the Hydraulic compartment get so very low (about 2" from the bottom) and the transmission get overfull?"

I wondered about this myself. Now that you mention foaming, it could be the fluid mixture produced enough gas to pressure up the hydraulic reservoir and push the fluid out of the reservoir into the transmission.

Another possible source of foaming would be a suction leak on your suction line (item #9 on Harvey's parts diagram), pulling air into the system. Check all of the O-rings in the suction line (#22, #14 - 2ea.). Note also that if the suction screen is badly plugged, it could increase suction pressure, possibly pulling air into the system.

Another possible source of aeration.....if the gear oil from the transmission got into the hydraulic reservoir, the pump sucking the heavy gear oil increases the suction pressure possibly pulling air into the system through leaking connections.
 

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The oil pass hole is near the top of the oil level in the cast partition between the two sections. Going up hill passes hydraulic fluid back to the rear section. Going down hill will pass the oil forward, if both sides are full. Operation of the three point hydraulics passes oil from the front to the cylinder and into the rear sump, and back to the hydraulic sump.

The idea behind the design from Ford was to keep three point piston and seal material, transmission gear, and bearing metal out of the hydraulic sump. All the particles settles in the bottom of the transmission side. The oil then flows through the hole in the partition back to the hydraulic side. The hydraulic oil that flows out of the three point cylinder dumps into the transmission sump so any wear particles sink back there, then the level eventually gets high enough in the transmission to flow oil back to the hydraulic side.

As sixbales states, any gear grease in the hydraulic system results in foam. Foam in the transmission is very damaging, and gear oil in the hydraulic system is fatal to O rings and seals in that system.

Once that foaming occurs the cylinder on the rock shaft will require rebuilding as the seal is not compatible with gear grease.

There is a condition on these tractors whereby the front dipstick must be just set on the case, and not screwed in, when checking hydraulic level or the hydraulic sump is not adequately filled. The oil level ends up two inches too low in the first place.

I recommend you pull the rockshaft housing and use a pneumatic cleaning gun and Stoddard solvent and thoroughly wash all the foamed mess out of the rear compartment after you drain the mess. You will find muck in the bottom of that housing anyway. The same may be necessary for the hydraulic side too. You are going to have to pull the rockshaft housing to properly rebuild the rockshaft cylinder so are not wasting effort.

It may be necessary to replace O rings in the control valve too, but sometimes not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks again for all the troubleshooting done by you guys. Having not tore into the oil reservoirs yet I think the foaming is only on the transmission side. The hydraulic side only keeps getting lower. I'm going to drain the fluids as recommended and try to use solvent and air to clean out as much of the visible foam that I can see and than refill with UTF fluid. If I can figure out how to replace the suction screen I will do that also. Hopefully the inner seals will still be in good order and I won't have to tear it down completely.
It still amazes me that the operators manual says to use two different fluids. This is what caused my problem from the get go. I would send pics if I could to show ford's recommendation. Thanks again.
 

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I need help I have this problem. just drained trans that was milky and overfilled..so I put 21 qts 80-90 but doesn't fill up. then I seen this thread..now I am confused what fluid to use...help 78 ford 1600
 

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I'd use a universal tractor fluid (UTF) as was suggested above. TSC,Walmart etc. carry it. Just make sure it meets or exceeds the Ford MC2-134A specification. Read the label and be sure.
 

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so if i hear you right no 80w90 but use this utf how much utf do i use 21 qts?..why does manual say 80w90 i am so confused. trying to fix today..please some one comment that has done this
 

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I'd say your best bet would be to call your New Holland Dealer and ask.
Some folks say UTF all around, some say 90W in the rear filler hole for the trans / Diff. and Hydraulic oil in the plug under the steering column.
 
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