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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The loader on my 1510 was starting to act a little sluggish and the 3-point would drop when I shut off the tractor. For the 3-point I read that was usually caused by a failed piston seal in that assembly and when I took it apart that's what I found. When I replaced the seal and reassembled it I decided to replace the hydraulic filter at the same time. Mine has a spin-on filter at the back of the left-side foot plate. After that I added back the lost fluid and tried it out. The loader seemed to work better and the 3-point stayed up as expected when the tractor was shut off. I moved the tractor to a more level spot to change the engine oil and filter. When I completed the oil change I was going to put the tractor away but I had no hydraulics. Neither the loader or the 3-point would move. I tried a number of things with no success. Mine has a priority valve on it with PF to the power steering and EF to the splitter for the loader and 3-point. I teed in a pressure gauge at the PF port and there is no pressure there. I took the fitting off at the PF port and fluid flows when I start the tractor but apparently no pressure is building. It's hard to believe the pump would fail all at once like that but don't know what's downstream that could be preventing the pressure from building. I removed the banjo fitting from the pump inlet and there is fluid there like it's pulling fluid and I checked for leaks on the low-pressure side and can't find any. Any suggestions for what I am missing would be appreciated.
 

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Howdy Greg, welcome to the forum.

The Shibaura built Ford tractors have a tendency for the hydraulic pump to lose prime. I normally attribute this air leaks (suction leaks) into the hydraulic fluid. Could be that your new hydraulic filter seal is leaking? Could be a rotten hose splice in the suction line (I think the hose splices are for vibration dampening)? Could be a leaking o-ring in the suction line connections? See attached parts diagram:


To prime the hydraulic pump, put a catch bucket and some cardboard under the pump. Loosen the high pressure line at the pump and crank the engine. Do not allow it to start (makes a mess). Crank the engine until the hydraulic pump produces fluid.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Howdy Greg, welcome to the forum.

The Shibaura built Ford tractors have a tendency for the hydraulic pump to lose prime. I normally attribute this air leaks (suction leaks) into the hydraulic fluid. Could be that your new hydraulic filter seal is leaking? Could be a rotten hose splice in the suction line (I think the hose splices are for vibration dampening)? Could be a leaking o-ring in the suction line connections? See attached parts diagram:


To prime the hydraulic pump, put a catch bucket and some cardboard under the pump. Loosen the high pressure line at the pump and crank the engine. Do not allow it to start (makes a mess). Crank the engine until the hydraulic pump produces fluid.
BigT, thanks for the reply and suggestions. When I previously removed the fitting from the PF port on the priority valve I was getting flow so it appeared the pump was pulling fluid. However, when I installed a tee and added a pressure gauge there was no pressure. Do you think if there was a leak in the suction side it would still pull some fluid but not build pressure? Also, it was suggested that maybe my new filter is bad and not allowing fluid to flow sufficiently, do you think that's possible?
 

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It's possible the new filter seal is leaking, allowing air into the system?? Are you certain you installed the correct filter?? If you over-tightened the new filter it can leak as well. But you should see fluid leakage.
 

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The loader on my 1510 was starting to act a little sluggish and the 3-point would drop when I shut off the tractor. For the 3-point I read that was usually caused by a failed piston seal in that assembly and when I took it apart that's what I found. When I replaced the seal and reassembled it I decided to replace the hydraulic filter at the same time. Mine has a spin-on filter at the back of the left-side foot plate. After that I added back the lost fluid and tried it out. The loader seemed to work better and the 3-point stayed up as expected when the tractor was shut off. I moved the tractor to a more level spot to change the engine oil and filter. When I completed the oil change I was going to put the tractor away but I had no hydraulics. Neither the loader or the 3-point would move. I tried a number of things with no success. Mine has a priority valve on it with PF to the power steering and EF to the splitter for the loader and 3-point. I teed in a pressure gauge at the PF port and there is no pressure there. I took the fitting off at the PF port and fluid flows when I start the tractor but apparently no pressure is building. It's hard to believe the pump would fail all at once like that but don't know what's downstream that could be preventing the pressure from building. I removed the banjo fitting from the pump inlet and there is fluid there like it's pulling fluid and I checked for leaks on the low-pressure side and can't find any. Any suggestions for what I am missing would be appreciated.
I can't help wondering where exactly did you "tee in" a pressure gauge, and what range gauge are you using? You mention a "PF" port. What is that? The line leading to the steering valve? If so, you likely won't see any noticeable pressure there until you operate the steering. The loader and three point should have no bearing on pressure there. Does the steering work now that the other functions don't?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It's possible the new filter seal is leaking, allowing air into the system?? Are you certain you installed the correct filter?? If you over-tightened the new filter it can leak as well. But you should see fluid leakage.
I purchased the filter from the New Holland dealer and it is the one recommended for my tractor. I usually tighten it until the seal touches and then 3/4 turn or as tight as I can turn it by hand which is slightly less than that. I don't see any leaking at the filter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I can't help wondering where exactly did you "tee in" a pressure gauge, and what range gauge are you using? You mention a "PF" port. What is that? The line leading to the steering valve? If so, you likely won't see any noticeable pressure there until you operate the steering. The loader and three point should have no bearing on pressure there. Does the steering work now that the other functions don't?
My priority valve is mounted right below the pump. The PF port is the "priority flow" which goes to the power steering box behind the dash panel. I removed the elbow fitting right at that port and installed a tee that I connected the original elbow into as well as the 5,000 psi pressure gauge. The power steering appears to work but since the loader is down I can't move it too far to really tell. The other port is the "EF" port that supplies fluid to the loader and 3-point. The priority valve has a shuttle in it and I understand when there is no demand from the steering the pressure builds and moves the shuttle to allow fluid to the other port. I could be wrong about the pressure at that port but I am not getting any flow out of the other port which would seem to make sense if the shuttle isn't moving. I don't know what else to try at this point.
 

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Assuming your tractor looks something like this.


You have a tee in place of elbow (item 9) and a gauge at that point?
I'm not quite sure we're on the same page with the operation of the priority valve. You say you read no pressure there. I wouldn't expect any pressure there unless you are actively turning the steering wheel and attempting to get the tires to move right or left. The action of the other functions will not affect what the gauge reads. Just because you're NOT using the steering doesn't mean that the priority flow is available to the loader and three point.

If you loosen the banjo bolt beneath the valve and start the tractor what happens? You get no oil flow at this point?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Assuming your tractor looks something like this.


You have a tee in place of elbow (item 9) and a gauge at that point?
I'm not quite sure we're on the same page with the operation of the priority valve. You say you read no pressure there. I wouldn't expect any pressure there unless you are actively turning the steering wheel and attempting to get the tires to move right or left. The action of the other functions will not affect what the gauge reads. Just because you're NOT using the steering doesn't mean that the priority flow is available to the loader and three point.

If you loosen the banjo bolt beneath the valve and start the tractor what happens? You get no oil flow at this point?
Yes that's what mine looks like and as you stated I have a tee now where item 9 is shown with that elbow reinstalled into the bottom of the tee and the gauge in the other port of the tee. When I remove the banjo fitting shown beside that at the bottom of the priority valve I have no flow out that port. When I turn the steering wheel the pressure reading on the gauge doesn't change. I have to admit my only knowledge of the priority valve function is what I read about them generally such as in this article http://www.bigtractorparts.com/downloads/Web/OperationPriorityValve_1_5_14.pdf which seems to be similar to my application. I believe my hydraulic pressure should be in the 2,000 psi range but am not sure where in the circuit that would be other than the lines leading to the loader cylinders or the 3-point piston.
 

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If that's the case I suspect the pump is doing nothing. If you loosen the gauge or a fitting on the steering side what do you get? Same again? Then what I would do next is this. Remove the bolts from suction line on the top of the pump. Push it aside far enough to allow you to squirt some oil into the port and fill it as much as possible. You might watch it for a minute to see how fast that drains down. In theory, you shouldn't see the level drop, but that's really not the point here. Fill the port, put the line back on and start it up. See what difference that makes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
If that's the case I suspect the pump is doing nothing. If you loosen the gauge or a fitting on the steering side what do you get? Same again? Then what I would do next is this. Remove the bolts from suction line on the top of the pump. Push it aside far enough to allow you to squirt some oil into the port and fill it as much as possible. You might watch it for a minute to see how fast that drains down. In theory, you shouldn't see the level drop, but that's really not the point here. Fill the port, put the line back on and start it up. See what difference that makes.
What I had done earlier was remove the flared fitting from the elbow that's in the PF port and when I started the engine fluid was flowing out that port. I also removed the bolts and flange from the inlet side of the pump and moved it aside similar to what you suggested. The inlet was full of fluid and when I turned the engine over it pulled the fluid into the pump. I also removed the piece of rubber tubing that couples the two pieces of inlet pipe and that pipe was full of fluid too. The tubing and clamps appeared to be in good condition so I reinstalled that. When I reinstalled the flange on the inlet of the pump I replaced the o-ring that was there since the old one was a little flattened and I wanted to make sure it wasn't sucking air at that point. I had also removed the priority valve completely and put a bucket under the pump outlet and started the engine to see if the pump was putting out. It seemed to flow pretty good and I was getting some air out with the fluid so I let it run a bit to try to get as much air out as possible without filling the bucket. So it seems like the pump is pulling fluid I just don't know if it is building pressure. The confusing thing is it was working fine initially and then 20 minutes later it stopped working completely. I have had the tractor a number of years now and even though I only use it occasionally I have never had any trouble with the hydraulics. The last time I changed the hydraulic filter I did the same thing as this time and didn't have any trouble. I really didn't need to change the filter since the other one didn't have that many hours on it. I just did it in case there was any pieces of that damaged 3-point seal in it. Is it possible that it's just a lot of entrained air in the fluid that's preventing the pressure from building up? Would it be worth it to drain all the fluid and start over with fresh fluid or would that just be a waste of time and money?
 

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I can certainly understand your confusion as to where and why all this came about. I think you've done everything correctly so far, and in most cases, it would have gotten you going again.

So to recap. The pump is moving oil. You had flow out the port for steering but nothing from the other port. No pressure registering on the gauge in the steering circuit. That's true even when attempting to steer? The steering does/does not try to move when you turn the wheel?

I think at this point I would be tempted to open up the flow divider and see what things look like in there. Hopefully something obvious will jump out.

As for the "waste of time and money" question. Just my opinion here, but I wouldn't go there. Sometimes the oil can be particularly nasty and will justify replacing it. Personally, I get tired of reading posts from the wannabee mechanics out there who jump on that bandwagon straight away time after time. You have a hydraulic problem. "Change the fluids and filter" is often the first response you get. Yes filters do cause problems, but you've already been there. A hydraulic problem is a hydraulic problem, not necessarily a fluid problem. (Plus it's expensive) How many times have you heard of an engine problem and found out later it was all solved by an oil change? Not hardly.
 

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I can certainly understand your confusion as to where and why all this came about. I think you've done everything correctly so far, and in most cases, it would have gotten you going again.

So to recap. The pump is moving oil. You had flow out the port for steering but nothing from the other port. No pressure registering on the gauge in the steering circuit. That's true even when attempting to steer? The steering does/does not try to move when you turn the wheel?

I think at this point I would be tempted to open up the flow divider and see what things look like in there. Hopefully something obvious will jump out.

As for the "waste of time and money" question. Just my opinion here, but I wouldn't go there. Sometimes the oil can be particularly nasty and will justify replacing it. Personally, I get tired of reading posts from the wannabee mechanics out there who jump on that bandwagon straight away time after time. You have a hydraulic problem. "Change the fluids and filter" is often the first response you get. Yes filters do cause problems, but you've already been there. A hydraulic problem is a hydraulic problem, not necessarily a fluid problem. (Plus it's expensive) How many times have you heard of an engine problem and found out later it was all solved by an oil change? Not hardly.
Great suggestions Fedup! I'm gonna follow this one. There's a gremlin in there somewhere. :cool: OT
 
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