[Bowen B]

If you look closely on the cylinder liner you will notice damage on it. This happened while driving, sudden loss of compression and burning oil was result. Then engine started making very loud knocking noise....
Does anyone know why this might have happened and what else is damaged, where did them pieces go off the cylinder wall and why did they shatter off, And what is the knock?
Also is this way to big a job for 'engine restore' oil additive?

 

[BigT]

Hello Bowen B, welcome to the tractor forum.

Most likely the engine ran low on oil. The knocking you hear may be a rod with a bad bearing. If you are certain the oil level was not low, then your oil pump may have quit working, or something else went wrong with your lubrication system.

 

[marc_hanna]

Definitely too big of a job for engine restore.
The pieces are either in your exhaust somewhere (port/valve/manifold/pipe) or in your oil circuit somewhere. The may have blocked a jacket or a journal and caused the oil circulation problem, etc.
I think you in for a resleeve, rings, and a few bearings.

 

[Hacke]

Welcome to the forum, Bowen B!


What sort of machine and engine is this?

It looks like damages from the cavitation effect. It occurs on the outside of the cylinder wall and the wall is slowly being pitted, deeper and deeper, and a hole is made. The coolant is then getting into the cylinder through the hole/s. This article explains it:

Cavitation Article

Find more by searching the Interwebs for "diesel cylinder cavitation".

If you pressurize the cooling system, you will see coolant coming out of the cavities.


I can not determine if there is a cylinder liner or not. If here is a liner, that could be replaced with a new one.
If there is no liner/sleeve you need to rebore the cylinder and put a sleeve in it. Hopefully, the block is healthy enough for such an operation. You need to consult an expert to find out what is possible to do.

Why do you think the engine is burning oil? If it is because of excessive smoke from the exhaust, you may have mistaken the smoke for being from oil instead of water (coolant). It can be hard to determine, but oil smoke is usually a bit more blue in color than water smoke. The inside of the cylinder would not look that clean if you had been burning engine oil.

The knocking is probably because of the coolant that gets into the cylinder. It can not be compressed like the air, it rather expands when it boils, so it makes a physical obstacle for the piston and that gives the knocking sound.

 

[Tx Jim]

Welcome to TF
Damage appears to great for any magic solution in a bottle/can to solve. I think an engine overhaul is in your tractors near future. Has any starting fluid been utilized as an aid to get this engine running?

 

[BigT]

Tx Jim raised an important question..... " Has any starting fluid been utilized as an aid to get this engine running?"

 

[Bowen B]

Tx Jim raised an important question..... " Has any starting fluid been utilized as an aid to get this engine running?"

In the past yes

 

[Bowen B]

Tx Jim raised an important question..... " Has any starting fluid been utilized as an aid to get this engine running?"

Yes, in the past when weather very cold. Would this cause this sort of damage

 

[Bowen B]

Welcome to TF
Damage appears to great for any magic solution in a bottle/can to solve. I think an engine overhaul is in your tractors near future. Has any starting fluid been utilized as an aid to get this engine running?

Starting fluid has been used in past yes. It this a result of using it?

 

[Bowen B]

Welcome to the forum, Bowen B!


What sort of machine and engine is this?

It looks like damages from the cavitation effect. It occurs on the outside of the cylinder wall and the wall is slowly being pitted, deeper and deeper, and a hole is made. The coolant is then getting into the cylinder through the hole/s. This article explains it:

Cavitation Article

Find more by searching the Interwebs for "diesel cylinder cavitation".

If you pressurize the cooling system, you will see coolant coming out of the cavities.


I can not determine if there is a cylinder liner or not. If here is a liner, that could be replaced with a new one.
If there is no liner/sleeve you need to rebore the cylinder and put a sleeve in it. Hopefully, the block is healthy enough for such an operation. You need to consult an expert to find out what is possible to do.

Why do you think the engine is burning oil? If it is because of excessive smoke from the exhaust, you may have mistaken the smoke for being from oil instead of water (coolant). It can be hard to determine, but oil smoke is usually a bit more blue in color than water smoke. The inside of the cylinder would not look that clean if you had been burning engine oil.

The knocking is probably because of the coolant that gets into the cylinder. It can not be compressed like the air, it rather expands when it boils, so it makes a physical obstacle for the piston and that gives the knocking sound.

Wow! I am very impressed with your knowledge in this situation. This is an original fordson major engine that has seen much work and Still is. This thankfully does have a cylinder liner and will get that replaced. I thought oil has been burning because the oil level does decrease over time.( I do always keep it at healthy level)
That makes sense for the knocking noise as it only happened once at full throttle before I stopped it and got her towed home and opened up.
Thank you very much for your help.

 

[Hacke]

Wow! I am very impressed with your knowledge in this situation. This is an original fordson major engine that has seen much work and Still is. This thankfully does have a cylinder liner and will get that replaced. I thought oil has been burning because the oil level does decrease over time.( I do always keep it at healthy level)
That makes sense for the knocking noise as it only happened once at full throttle before I stopped it and got her towed home and opened up.
Thank you very much for your help.

Examine the damages first and pressurize the cooling system to make sure what is going on. That is a sturdy engine, not known to suffer from cavitation problems.

How do the valves look? Could something have happened to a valve spring, or the spring locking devices, a piece of it got in to the cylinder and made those marks?

 

[Tx Jim]

Starting fluid has been used in past yes. It this a result of using it?

Incorrect use & utilizing too excessive amount of starting has damaged many engines since I started my employment at a tractor dealership in 1965. IMHO I doubt your engines liner damage was caused by cavitation but photos can be deceiving. Liner cavitation normally results with coolant in engine crankcase just as Hacke's article states. Cylinder liner cavitation is much more prevalent today than 40 or 50 yrs ago. I've owned a Ford 6700 for several yrs that has no cylinder liners that prior to me purchasing had received a "new crate engine" due to hole in cast iron cylinder wall due to cavitation

 

[Bowen B]

Examine the damages first and pressurize the cooling system to make sure what is going on. That is a sturdy engine, not known to suffer from cavitation problems.

How do the valves look? Could something have happened to a valve spring, or the spring locking devices, a piece of it got in to the cylinder and made those marks?

I will have a more thorough look. Valves look good but in past the tip of the injector shattered off and was hitting all surfaces. Maybe it weakened certain parts of the piston liner, that happened months ago though and I use this tractor a lot.

 

[Hacke]

I will have a more thorough look. Valves look good but in past the tip of the injector shattered off and was hitting all surfaces. Maybe it weakened certain parts of the piston liner, that happened months ago though and I use this tractor a lot.

There are marks in a vertical streak, like when there are cavitation damages. That made me think of cavitation.
Has the tractor been standing for a longer while?
If so, is it possible that water has got into the chamber?
If so, maybe the water run along the wall, causing rust that made the wall porous along that streak. The piston rings may also be damaged, and causing a low compression.

I am not familiar with these engines, but generally an engine oil consumption over time often means that the valve guides/seals are worn.

This is a theory how low compression and knocking could start at the same time:
The engine has worn conrod bearings.
The piston rings give up, and cause low compression, or something (a part from the cylinder wall) gets stuck between a valve and it's seat.
Since the "hold down force" on the piston is low, the play in the bushings make new knocking sounds at top and bottom, at every stroke.

The marks may have nothing to do with what happened.
Anyhow, I would get the pistons and rods out of there, and check the valve guides.

I have some manuals, unfortunately, they are too large to be uploaded to this forum. Start a conversation if you are interested, and I will send them to you by WeTransfer.

 

[Bowen B]

There are marks in a vertical streak, like when there are cavitation damages. That made me think of cavitation.
Has the tractor been standing for a longer while?
If so, is it possible that water has got into the chamber?
If so, maybe the water run along the wall, causing rust that made the wall porous along that streak. The piston rings may also be damaged, and causing a low compression.

I am not familiar with these engines, but generally an engine oil consumption over time often means that the valve guides/seals are worn.

This is a theory how low compression and knocking could start at the same time:
The engine has worn conrod bearings.
The piston rings give up, and cause low compression, or something (a part from the cylinder wall) gets stuck between a valve and it's seat.
Since the "hold down force" on the piston is low, the play in the bushings make new knocking sounds at top and bottom, at every stroke.

The marks may have nothing to do with what happened.
Anyhow, I would get the pistons and rods out of there, and check the valve guides.

I have some manuals, unfortunately, they are too large to be uploaded to this forum. Start a conversation if you are interested, and I will send them to you by WeTransfer.

Her gasket had failed a while back and she was slowly drinking water Everywhere I went, I assume that's why its porous. Took her a spin today as it is without fixing anything and there was no knocking. Would knocking only happen when engine hot ?
When the knocking before I shut engine off it was extremely loud knocking... Is there a chance that there was an uneven combustion within that cylinder because of the rough edges?

 

[Hacke]

Her gasket had failed a while back and she was slowly drinking water Everywhere I went, I assume that's why its porous. Took her a spin today as it is without fixing anything and there was no knocking. Would knocking only happen when engine hot ?
When the knocking before I shut engine off it was extremely loud knocking... Is there a chance that there was an uneven combustion within that cylinder because of the rough edges?

The piston rings never reach the marks you show in the picture, so they should not cause a loss of compression.

You say it burns engine oil and that can cause soot build-up (which also problems in the fuel system can cause). If you push it hard, the soot can heat up and cause a premature ignition, which gives a knocking sound. Eventually the soot passes out through the exhaust and the knocking stops. Have you seen fireflies coming out of the chimney?

The loss of compression was also temporary, as I get it, and that could have been soot preventing a valve to close properly.