[Glenwood Coleman]

A quick question from a novice. I have a 1986 Case 485 mostly used for blowing snow. It has a heater in-line with the radiator hose that seems to work well, But I have still had trouble starting it in Cold weather, It would start with a boost from my car but lately (which makes me think its a battery issue) the temperature has been dropping to -15° to -20° C and I can't get it started even with a good long boost from my car. I do not have the option to park it inside. Can anyone suggest what measures I can take to get started in really cold weather? New Battery? Battery Tender? Dip stick heater? A different type of block heater. Willing to make some investment to make sure It will start for me. Thanks very much

 

[SidecarFlip]

I'd pull the battery and have it load tested first thing. I believe Princess Auto up there will do it.

 

[Fedup]

My faith in radiator hose coolant heaters is rather limited. I can't see much value in warming up coolant in that area. I doubt there is much heat transfer from the hose to the block, which is where you need it in order to be be very effective. I would go with a block or tank heater, possibly both if you're tractor lives outside and you expect to use it much in those temperatures. The engine has no glow plugs but it may have a port in the intake manifold near the air cleaner hose connection that could be used for an air heater or thermostart unit. That would also be helpful in your temperature range. Installing either one would require some extra materials as well as some effort on your part, but certainly could be done.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Both my tractors live in a barn with no electricity and I never have a starting issue because one, I change out my batteries every 3 years for a new one, 2, I use the largest battery that will fit in the tray, 3. I make sure the ground lug to chassis is clean and bright as well as the leads to the starter motor and 4, I keep both my battery terminals and the clamps clean and free from corrosion. You can buy a terminal / post cleaner tool at Harbor Freight for under 3 bucks every day.

 

[Tx Jim]

Both my tractors live in a barn with no electricity and I never have a starting issue because one, I change out my batteries every 3 years for a new one, 2, I use the largest battery that will fit in the tray, 3. I make sure the ground lug to chassis is clean and bright as well as the leads to the starter motor and 4, I keep both my battery terminals and the clamps clean and free from corrosion. You can buy a terminal / post cleaner tool at Harbor Freight for under 3 bucks every day.

Battery should be load tested. Both your tractor engines have glow-plugs. I didn't locate any glow-plugs in CIH 485 parts catalog BUT did locate an ether(starting fluid) aid listed. I noticed while searching 485 parts that it has a Bosch inj pump.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I prefer the Bosch style pump over all the others myself. The two things I like about it is, they are basically trouble free and they advance the to 100% fuel output to the injectors upon starting so the cylinders get a big shot of fuel when you initially crank them and the glo plugs or start aid get a nice shot of fuel to pop off. They only advance to 100% for a split second but that is usually enough. Mine start right up no matter how cold they are so long as I preheat the glo plugs sufficiently. Mine are manual so I can preheat as long as I want to but usually 10 seconds (me counting 1,001, 1002 to 10 is always sufficient.

Neither of my pumps have ever been touched but I do change the fuel filters very regularly and use anti-gel (Powerservice winter blend) in the fuel as they reside in an ambient temperature barn with no electricity. and I make sure my starting battery is always up to snuff and I also change out my starting batteries every 3 years no matter what and the terminals are clean and corrosion free and so is the battery to chassis ground cable and the battery to starter relay cable.

Because my units are pure mechanical and no computer involved, I always take the starting battery out of circuit when they are parked. I use a knife switch mounted on the negative post of the starting battery and I open the circuit when they are parked and close it prior to starting them. Finally, I use the largest starting battery with the most CCA that will fit in the battery tray, in my case a Group 31 with 1200 CCA, always sourced from a retailer that has a good turnover in flooded cell batteries, in my case, the local heavy truck dealership.

They both have block heaters that have never been plugged in. Don't need them. Sure they bang and rattle bit on a cold below freezing start but they always start and I'll let them base idle for a minute or two and then advance the throttle slightly and go in the house and have a warm cup of cocoa or coffee and allow them to warm up. I never move either until the temperature gauge has moved off the cold peg.

Just how I do it. To me, the most important aspect is a fully charged starting battery and clean corrosion free connections. People tend to ignore the starting battery and then it won't start because the battery is old and sulfated or the connections are all corroded and when you impede the flow of electrons or they are insufficient, it ain't gonna start.

Popular misconception is that batteries fail in the cold weather. Not true. Batteries actually fail in hot weather but the appear to fail in the cold, because the battery cannot deliver the cranking amps necessary to spin a cold engine and thick oil over. Batteries are pretty immune to the cold. Not so the heat and certainly not when the connections are corroded and have high resistance to electron flow.

 

[Tx Jim]

My '91 JD 4255 has operated over 11,600 hrs without the Bosch inj pump being touched

 

[SidecarFlip]

I'm about half way there with the 6200 hours open station. I figure both will outlast me without ever being fiddled with.

 

[LouNY]

A quick question from a novice. I have a 1986 Case 485 mostly used for blowing snow. It has a heater in-line with the radiator hose that seems to work well, But I have still had trouble starting it in Cold weather, It would start with a boost from my car but lately (which makes me think its a battery issue) the temperature has been dropping to -15° to -20° C and I can't get it started even with a good long boost from my car. I do not have the option to park it inside. Can anyone suggest what measures I can take to get started in really cold weather? New Battery? Battery Tender? Dip stick heater? A different type of block heater. Willing to make some investment to make sure It will start for me. Thanks very much

OK, I took a quick look to see if the Case 485 was what I was thinking it was. Yep, a newer version of my older IH 574.
One, your lower radiator hose heater if it's working will help heat the block of your engine, to check is the hose above the heater going into the block
hot and the head should be warm.
Two, clean and check all of your battery cables and connections.
Have the battery load tested or just replace it.
Three you could put a battery maintainer on to keep the battery fully charged and warm,
that will help immensely in starting.

Four, replace that old starter with a good gear reduction starter.
A good battery and a good reduction starter will be a huge improvement.
This is the one I actually put on my 574 this winter and is listed for your 485 also.
New Upgraded Gear Reduction Starter Replacement for IHC 674D 684 784 884 2500AD | eBay

 

[pogobill]

I picked up a small solar battery maintainer / charger at Canadian Tire and tie wrapped it to the front of my tractor. Worked well.
I now have one nail to the tractor shed and hook it up to the tractor when I park it. I do it when I raise the hook and use the battery disconnect to isolate the battery, so I have the hood open anyways.
Something like this...

General PDP Template | Canadian Tire

www.canadiantire.ca

 

[pogobill]

Actually the 4 that I have are "Coleman" Brand!!

 

[Bob Driver]

I'll get the usual negative feedback from posting this, but the results can be confirmed with a VDOM. We were having cold starting issues with a fleet of 120 Mack trash trucks and I was the lead mechanic. We asked for help from Delco-Remy. They sent a 75 year old electrical engineer in to help. He had me bring the hardest starting truck into the shop to troubleshoot. First thing we did was a voltage drop test at the starter. Those Macks were running four 900A batteries in parallel at the time. Voltage drop on the ground side was over 1V. He said voltage drop on the ground side was the 1# problem he saw that led to cold weather starting problems.

Macks ran the OEM battery ground circuit from the battery box directly to the truck frame right behind the battery box through about an 18" battery cable. He had me make/route a new 8' battery ground cable out of 4/0 welding cable directly to the starter mounting bolts. I had my doubts, but......

Results were almost zero voltage drop with the starter cranking and never had another problem starting with that truck again regardless of temperature. Ended up buying several 100 feet of 4/0 welding cable and a dozen boxes of cable lugs. Converted the whole fleet to ground at the starter mounting bolts. Also ran same welding cable ground wiring set up from the alternator bracket to the starter mounting bolts. Cold starting problems went away, starter failures went away, alternator failures went away. Amazing difference in alternator performance also when you consider the number of lights that are running on a typical trash truck

OEMs use a frame ground as a way of reducing production cost, it's not the ideal design for starter/alternator performance, especially in cold weather. With a single 700CCA battery on an ag tractor, 2/0 welding cable will work fine. It runs about $4 per foot, battery lugs are about $.50 each. A 4', 2/0, ground cable running directly from the battery to the starter mounting bolts will run you around $20 and you'll be amazed at the difference in cold weather starting performance......

 

[pogobill]

I've been having issues with my '48 Cockshutt. Cables were old, frayed and corroded. I replaced them with the biggest cables I could find at my local auto supply chain. Not big enough I'm afraid, tractor won't start but the new cables are much prettier. I think I may have to find some of that welding cable or such and try the bigger wire... the tractor is 6 volt.

 

[Bob Driver]

I've been having issues with my '48 Cockshutt. Cables were old, frayed and corroded. I replaced them with the biggest cables I could find at my local auto supply chain. Not big enough I'm afraid, tractor won't start but the new cables are much prettier. I think I may have to find some of that welding cable or such and try the bigger wire... the tractor is 6 volt.

Try a welding supply shop to get it by the foot.... Consider all the problems we hear about on this Forum that are the result of poor battery cable performance and that's even in the Summer. Now factor in the compounding voltage drop that results in battery performance at -10 and welding cable battery leads start to make a lot of sense in relation to cold weather starting problems .

 

[LouNY]

When I replaced the starter on my IH 574 this winter I ran a new cable for power and a ground cable to a starter mount bolt,
I used 00 cables.
Between a new gear reduction starter, a new battery and new cables she starts better then new, as it should.
Battery $180, starter $150 Ebay starter, around $20 each for the battery cables so roughly $370.

 

[LouNY]

This is were I got my starter cables from they weren't the cheapest but they were reasonable and the easy ability to order any desired length, and ends,
was worth it.
2/0 Gauge Battery Cables - Custom Made 00 AWG Battery Cables

 

[Bob Driver]

This is were I got my starter cables from they weren't the cheapest but they were reasonable and the easy ability to order any desired length, and ends,
was worth it.
2/0 Gauge Battery Cables - Custom Made 00 AWG Battery Cables

Had starter failure problems on a fleet of about 400 Frito-Lay route vans running 6.5 GM diesels 20:1 compression ratio, starting 40-50 times per day. Ate the standard GM starters every 90 days. Changed to Nippon Denso gear reduction starters, starter failures became 3-4 years. Firm believer in gear reduction starters......

 

[SidecarFlip]

When I replaced the starter on my IH 574 this winter I ran a new cable for power and a ground cable to a starter mount bolt,
I used 00 cables.
Between a new gear reduction starter, a new battery and new cables she starts better then new, as it should.
Battery $180, starter $150 Ebay starter, around $20 each for the battery cables so roughly $370.

I like using neoprene covered heavy duty stranded welding cable and Tweco ends myself. I'll crimp them and solder them as well.

Got to replace the positive cable on the open station M9 I bought used 2 years ago. Previous owner cut the OEM end off and buggered up the cable. I'm just gonna replace the entire cable with an OEM one. Ground side is fine.

 

[rtsdad]

If you have 15w40 goo in the crankcase, change to 10w30 or even 10w40 and it'll crank 60-80% faster.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Interesting description of 15-40. Not goo at all. It's lubricant. Far as cranking 60-80% faster with 5-40 or another base viscosity weight oil in the crankcase. that is all conjecture. Lots of other factors involved like how charged the starting battery is, how viable it is, how clean the connections are, in what condition the engine itself and the start is among other factors. Oil is just one small part of the equation, not the end cure.

With my tractors, in reality, with proper pre heat (and my diesel pickup truck as well), they rarely crank over more than one revolution anyway and none are plugged in as I don't have electricity in my big barn and it get's cold here as in below zero regularly. I keep my starting systems well maintained and quality starting batteries that I change out at least every 3 years.

Started the cab tractor yesterday to finish clearing the snowfall. It was 12 above zero (f) when I went to the barn. Pre heated the glow plugs for 15 seconds and it cranked over at most one revolution and popped off. These aren't new tractors either. Both have thousands of meter hours on them (2002 and 2004), but they are maintained properly and I have 15-40 Rotella T6 in the one I ran yesterday. The other has 5-40 T6 in it and I don't see much difference if any in the way they start cold other than it takes a few seconds more for the one with the 15-40 to build enough oil pressure to extinguish the oil pressure light.

Once they start, I leave them at an elevated idle until the temp gauge starts to move off cold but that is more for the transmission and hydraulic fluid than anything else. Besides, it's bad to work a stone cold engine, gasoline or diesel.