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Tractor Damager
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108 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello again,

I'm stripping down the steering on my Leyland 262 and have hit a problem:

Blue Fluid Gas Cylinder Composite material
The king-post has two brass bushes inside it, top and bottom, separated by a cast section.
Automotive tire Wood Rim Automotive wheel system Circle
Here, you can see the two bushes and the separating cast section.
Schematic Font Parallel Pattern Drawing
The bushes are parts 6 in this diagram.

You can probably tell from the middle picture above, I've made a concerted effort at knocking out the bushes with a couple of drifts, a screwdriver and a lump hammer - there's been absolutely no movement whatsoever, though. Everything I've read about doing this (I've never had to do it before) says to press the bushes out, but I can't, here, because of the central separating section.

If anybody has any hints or tips for doing this, I'd be very grateful,

Thanks :)
 

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Tractor Damager
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108 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
...another quick question (while people kindly mull over the one above) - I had a go at test-fitting one of the new bushes on the steering king-pin:

Composite material Gas Auto part Automotive wheel system Engineering

...it's a much looser fit than I expected - there's about 1mm clearance all round - is that normal?

After 40 years, I'd expect the king-pin to be a bit worn down, but this seems a bit much...I take it there's not meant to be any play between the bushes and the king-pin, though?

Thanks for any shared wisdom :)
 

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1,094 Posts
Not to worry, the loose fit at this point is not a problem. It will tighten up some once installed and compressed. You really don't want a "snug" fit there anyway. A little movement is necessary. It's not like rod/main bearing type tolerances. Grease them once in while and they will outlast both of us.

As for getting to old ones out, I never try to drive them out. I use a die grinder and simply cut through the bushing, usually at the thinnest point. It will come out easily enough after that. If you ding the inside surface a bit doing so it won't hurt anything.
 

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If you can't try Fedup's idea not having an angle grinder, try folding the bush in from the top, drifting from the outside to the inside so this makes the OD smaller, and another is to break a hacksaw blade long enough to fit in a blade handle and slowly cut through the bush wall enough to fold in and remove, the hacksaw blade method is painful and will take a little time.
 

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Tractor Damager
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108 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hello both,

thanks very much for your advice - I've not got a proper die-grinder, but I do have die-grinder bits, so I'm going to try that with a drill and see how it goes.

I'll let you know how it goes/went!
 

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Tractor Damager
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108 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
...well, it went fairly well:

Handheld power drill Automotive tire Blue Saw Pneumatic tool
I started with an easy, top one and it came out with no problems...and I hardly nicked the casting, at all...

Wood Serveware Drinkware Pottery Gas
...the others all came out similarly, but you may be wondering "where's the fourth one?" It turns out, the fourth bush had worn away to nothing (or so close to nothing, it had long-since fallen out). Unfortunately, I didn't decide this is what had probably happened until I'd had a pretty determined go at the casting with my grinding die, so now I've got a groove the depth of a bush in the casting :rolleyes:. As I see it, I've got two options, now:

Plan A: Fill the groove with chemical metal, then press in the bush.

Plan B: Just press in the bush and live with it.

I'm off to create some sort of threaded-rod and washer system to press the new bushes in, now...thanks for your continuing help :)
 

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Tractor Damager
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108 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
A quick update...and an invitation to scratch chins/stroke beards as appropriate:

Vehicle Automotive tire Blue Motor vehicle Bumper

Here's my DIY bush-press (version 3) - basically two metal plates with a 10mm threaded rod through them and nuts top and bottom. The ends of version 1 were too big to fit inside the lower bearing recess to actually press the bush and then it turned out the plates were too thin to fully press the bushes in and kept bending, hence the overkill battle-ship plating I'm using here...

All the bushes pressed in with varying degrees of reluctance, except the last one:

Click to see a loose bush...

It seems, the many years of driving around without even a steering roller bearing(!) on this side has done the tolerance of the casting no favours at all...I've measured the casting ID as 45.5mm whilst the OD of the bush is only 45.3mm, hence it just drops out when you try to fit it.

I'm in a bit of a quandary as to what to do, now, but I'm considering the following options:

1. Buy a thicker bush with the same ID - unfortunately, I don't think this is actually possible, as I can't find anywhere that sells them.
2. Buy a complete new axle-extension - again, this is tricky, as they come up for sale once in a blue moon...that said, there's two for sale on ebay at the moment (in the UK), so maybe this is the best option...
3. Lucky for me, there's a machine-shop where I work and I'm thinking of asking them to machine a copper sleeve for the bush - I'm not sure if this is actually possible, though, so they might just shake their heads and laugh.

As always, any thoughts or alternative suggestions will be gratefully received,

Thanks :)
 

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The difference is 0.2mm or 0.0787 inches if my calculator is correct. Others here who know a lot more than I do will know, but to me once everything is assembled and greased that little bit of play should be fine for a tractor.

Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk
 

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Tractor Damager
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108 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
OK, well that's encouraging to hear :)

My concern is that the casting ID is probably supposed to be something like 1 3/4" (44.45mm), so the bush isn't being compressed as it's inserted, to give a reasonable tolerance on the king-pin, which I assume is what's supposed to happen. If I could just get the bush to stay in, that would be something :)
 

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I see a few possibilities.

Find a replacement unit, whatever that takes.

Take this one to a machinist. Have the affected area bored to a larger diameter. They can then either make a sleeve to be pressed in bringing the I.D. back to standard so the new bushing fits as it should, or make a new bushing with a thicker wall to compensate.

A third option would be to "blacksmith" what you have. If the new bushing fits in the bore with no resistance but doesn't necessarily move side to side a great deal it may be possible to improve it a bit. First, clean and degrease the interior of the axle tube. Score/gouge the inner surface where the bushing will ride with a center punch, chisel as much as possible, particularly on the side that shows the most wear. Then try the bushing again, just to see if that helps much. I wouldn't put it all the way in, but start it in the bore and test the effect. If it shows promise, I would clean the surface again and the bushing exterior as well. Brake cleaner works wonders here. Put a coat of Loktite 640 stud and bearing mount compound on both surfaces, drive the bushing into place and let it cure. Maybe overnight. I've used it extensively in places where bearing bores, shafts/spindles, etc are slightly worn to the point where a bearing will spin when should be tight. No substitute for proper machinework, but much less expensive, much quicker, and I find it effective more often than not.
 

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Tractor Damager
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108 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi Fedup,

thanks for all of that - it's very much appreciated.

As there was a replacement on eBay, I went for that...at GBP75, it's almost certainly a cheaper option than taking the old one somewhere to be machined (and the machine shop where I work were very dubious of my idea to try to put a sleeve around the bush).

The challenge now is going to be getting the old extension off...

Thanks :)
 

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Tractor Damager
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108 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hello,

another quick update:

Wood Cylinder Gas Machine Brick I've pressed all the new hub-bearing outer shells into the hubs - you can probably do this with a hammer and a drift if you're careful, but I split the hub-casting of a CB500 doing that once, so I always press bearings in now...
Hat Yellow Gas Cylinder Engineering ...lucky for me, I've got access to one where I work and enough old bearing shells and sockets to press the new shells in with.
Tire Wheel Land vehicle Vehicle Automotive tire Having decided to replace the damaged axle extension, the next job was getting the old one off. To say the nuts were a bit stiff would be an understatement - having tried a blow-torch, penetrating oil, a stupidly long extension and breaking my new stilson(!), I opted for this, slightly non-standard method. I'm still not sure what I'm more amazed by - that this actually worked, that I didn't shear the bolt or destroy the head, that I didn't split the socket or snap my breaker bar...take your pick for things that should have gone wrong! At one point, the breaker bar and the metal pipe over it were bent like a banana under the digger bucket!
Saw Wood Tradesman Asphalt Power tool Anyway, moving swiftly on - knocking the bolts out was surprisingly easy (although I forced them to turn with the digger to break the corrosion lock, first)...
Saw Tripod Plant Wood Automotive tire ...and getting the axle extension out, which I thought would be a nightmare (and I already had plans for using the digger as a sort of glorified pulley-puller to drag the extension out of the axle), turned out to be no issue at all - it practically fell out!

So far, so good but, as always, two steps forward, one step back - I've destroyed one of the new hub seals trying to insert it. How you get these things in is beyond me at the moment - I think I might have to file down the hub-lip a bit to give the seals a start...

Anyway, there you go :)
 

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Tractor Damager
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108 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hello,

I've not got a lot further with this, unfortunately - I've been trying for about a week on and off to get the oil seals into the hubs, but with no luck.

Automotive tire Wood Rim Font Circle

Here's one of the new seals next to the seal I took out -- they're exactly the same size, even if they don't look it (3.500 x 2.750 x 0.375), but the old one is "metal cased" whilst the new one is a normal, nitrile seal.

I'm starting to think this is the problem - no matter what I try, I can't get the nitrile seal to start going into the hub without ripping. The problem is, pretty much all modern seals are nitrile and I can't find a metal-cased version for sale anywhere.

I've tried cleaning up the seal recess in the hub and every sort of pressing/hammering method I can think of, but the seal either barrels or rips every time - I've killed two now...

I'd be grateful for any thoughts - it's a bit frustrating to still have the front end of my tractor in bits just because I can't get the hub seals in!
 

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Tractor Damager
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108 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hello,

having destroyed another seal, I decided something was obviously wrong (possibly, it was me...) so I took the hubs and seals to a machine shop and asked them to have a look at it. They re-machined the recesses and told me the edges had been mangled by the collapsed steering, hence the seals not fitting - with nice, new machined surfaces, the seals pressed in lovely...

Hand Tire Wheel Automotive tire Orange
The first job in re-fitting the hubs was to fit the back-plate and the space together so the alignment cut-outs match.

Glove Water Sleeve Orange Finger
There's a stud in the stub-axle the two line up with.

Blue Safety glove Automotive tire Glove Gas
Next, pack the inner bearing-race with grease.

Automotive tire Paint Tire Rim Wheel
Then, insert the bearing-race into its outer shell - you can see the shaft-seal here, too - it actually seals onto the spacer rather than the axle, which is why you can get away with fitting the bearing-race after fitting the seal.

Food Blue Ingredient Orange Corn
Next, I packed the outer bearing-race.

Hand Automotive tire Finger Mechanic Rim
Then I slid the hub onto the stub-axle, pressing the outer bearing-race into its outer shell at the same time.

Automotive tire Wood Saw Grinding Gas
Next, I fitted the thrust-washer - it's keyed, so only goes on in one position. You can see I've stuck a new hub-cap gasket to the hub at this point with grease.

Wheel Blue Automotive tire Tire Plant
At this point, the more mechanically sympathetic should turn away - for some reason, one of the ancestors had ground down the threaded end of the stub-axle to a smaller diameter and re-threaded it to take this nyloc nut with a hole drilled through it. Originally, a nail then went through this and a hole drilled in the stub-axle to stop it turning. unfortunately, a combination of a thicker oil-seal and the machined seal recess meant that the hole in the nut no longer lined up with the hole in the axle. Unfortunately, the threaded part of the stub axle isn't long enough for the nyloc part of the nut to bite, so I was left with various options for re-fitting in and getting it not to turn...all of them were better than the one I went with, which had the key benefits of being the quickest and easiest solution...

Automotive tire Glove Tradesman Engineering Gas
...I put the nut on nyloc section first - job done. I then treated the hub like a trailer hub, tightened up the nut until the hub started to bind, then backed it of a quarter of a turn. i appreciate, this is not the best solution (which would be to bin the stub-axle/king-post and get a new one which would take the correct castellated nut) but my feeling is this is a problem for me 40 years hence, when it wears out again.

Automotive tire Road surface Asphalt Tire Tread
With the hub nut greased and the outer bearing packed a bit more, I then fitted the hub-cap.

Oops...I've just reached my ten-image per post allowance...
 

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Tractor Damager
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108 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
...so I'll end here:

Blue Automotive tire Asphalt Gas Cylinder
One of the hub-cap nuts is a grease-nipple, so I put the best part of half a tube of EP2 into each hub. The Timkin website recommends you only fill a hub half way with grease - how you tell you've achieved that when the hubs are sealed, though, is a bit of a mystery... The reason given is that over-filling a hub "promotes churning and increases running temperatures" - as this tractor's unlikely to achieve speeds in excess of a less than terrifying 5mph during any job I'm in charge of, I don't think this will be much of a problem.

So there you go, that's how you rebuild a set of really, really knackered hubs without just buying new ones (which would probably be more sensible).

Cheerio :)
 

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Tractor Damager
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108 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
A bit out of order, but I forgot to add in that I'd already fitted the steering king-posts:

Blue Automotive tire Wood Bumper Wheel
I bought a new axle-extension - after cleaning, wire-brushing, painting and fitting, it looks like this. Pressing the bushes in was fairly easy, but they were much tighter than the other side, so the next set of bushes (again, to be fitted some time around 2061) will probably need a new axle-extension on the other side, as well.

Hand tool Blue Wood Metalworking hand tool Gas
These are the parts that make up the steering/axle/king-post. A thrust-bearing goes around the bottom of the king-post and the tractor basically sits on that. At the top, a neoprene ring seals the gap between the steering-arm and the axle-extension.

Wood Hat Headgear Helmet Wood stain
I fitted the thrust-bearing first...

Blue White Light Automotive tire Wheel
...then slid the king-post up into the axle extension and secured it with the bolt through the steering-arm. The steering-arms are aligned using a semi-circular key recessed into the king-post; remember to remove this before trying to pass the king-post through the axle-extensions, as it probably won't fit and will probably damage the bushes if you don't. I forgot on one side and had to stop work while I did some swearing...

I wasn't sure whether the thrust-bearing needed to be pre-loaded at all - the king-post is only really held in by the weight of the tractor on it and the steering arm fixing bolt. You can't actually adjust how tight the steering arm is against the axle-extension, but I decided to jack the tractor up slightly on the king-post/axle anyway while I fitted the steering-arm.

Automotive tire Motor vehicle Bumper Fender Automotive exterior
Here's the end result - there's still some play in the steering, but that seems to be by design. There's a lot less play than before the rebuild, though...to be honest, if there'd been any more play, the front-wheels and the rest of the tractor would only have very occasionally encountered one another...

Another job ticked off...I might actually get in it and drive it, one day!
 
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