Bucket dumps slowly on NH Workmaster 50
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Sorry, you don't collect $200, you need to do a rough drawing of both cylinder setups and then you will see the operation doesn't change, only the cylinder orientation.
In the normal setup, the rod extends and in your suggestion, the cylinder extends with the rod pinned and in both cases, in the dump configuration, the oil fills behind the piston and not the rod side.
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Thanks FredM! I was hoping someone would come along to prop me up. I was beginning to think that was not practiced on this forum. I was getting pretty blue in the face. Had to throw up the stop sign or I would have posted something that would have gotten me banned.
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I am fairly sure that the Ag tractor loaders are set this way to cut costs, it is a shame really because a single counter lever like the 950 Cat would have utilised the power side of the ram for breakout, but then, two rams are better than one.
Yeh!!, I was sure the photo would have shown the rod operation in perspective.
You can challenge in a nice way without upsetting the Mods, it is a great forum and the saddest part is we have lost a lot of good posters in the last few years, but anyway, make the most and enjoy the forum.
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Took a couple days to wrap my head around this whole swapping ends thing.
Then it clicked.......I'm still not feeling like I'll get my $200.
If I'm smelling this right.......No matter which way configured...theres only 1 way to extend a cyl.
Is that the point.............???
Onto the original issue.......can anyone confirm a 2 position dump feature on a 2022 loader stick for this model??
I 'm still guessing this is part of the problem.
Then it clicked.......I'm still not feeling like I'll get my $200.
If I'm smelling this right.......No matter which way configured...theres only 1 way to extend a cyl.
Is that the point.............???
Onto the original issue.......can anyone confirm a 2 position dump feature on a 2022 loader stick for this model??
I 'm still guessing this is part of the problem.
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3,207 Posts
The debate is if you reverse the crowd/dump cylinder with the rod anchored to the boom yoke and the cylinder anchored to the bucket, then when you use dump position of the control lever, then the hydraulic oil will flow into the rod end side of the piston and make for a faster dump, "red and i say it wont", because to extend the ram, the hydraulic pressure has to go to the piston side of the ram, no matter which way the ram is attached to the loader frame.
If the ram was able to be placed under the boom in its original configuration and attached to the bottom of the bucket, then yes, the theory of a faster dump may take place because the pressure will be on the rod side of the ram, but can you imagine the damage that would occur to the ram shaft and lower pins in that configuration.
I cannot help with your question about a 2 position dump, I haven't been on a machine since 2001 and have been right away from machinery since.
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You created 2 posts and I answered the wrong one it seems, if you are still reading replies, could you answer the timing of the full dump to full crowd please.
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I don't know much if anything about your specific tractor loader, but here is some general info on hydraulics
Found this trying to find more about the hydraulics on your loader,
The working of a hydraulic pump can slow down after continuous work hours. Mostly, the sluggishness in the pump is caused by the hydraulic compensator valve.
You need to get in touch with your mechanic and have your tractor checked because only an expert can detect the faults in valves and fix them accordingly.
However, fixing the valves is a temporary solution. Farmers who keep using the machines with the faulty valves have to suffer the damage of the complete breakdown of the New Holland Workmaster 50 tractors.
Also according to tractor data there are four different loaders that fit your tractor.
I believe your issue has been explained very well in previous posts. but would like to help you possibly understand the whys.
Most hydraulic cylinder have a single rod coming out of the barrel to do work. This rod displaces area of the cylinder so the rod end of the cylinder has less "capacity" than the barrel end, therefore with a given flow the cylinder will retract faster than extend due to the different capacities of the cylinder. Some manufacturers use a cylinder that the rod comes out both ends IH did this on the steering of utility tractors. If the had used a cylinder with only the rod coming out of one end the wheels would turn quicker one way than the other.
Some manufacturers put restrictors in the lowering side of the loader so it could not have an uncontrolable or too fast of a drop. You may want to check and see if if equipped the restrictor did not get installed on the wrong line.
Food for thought: There are two ways to speed up hydraulics. 1 reduce the size of the area that is being filled. Of course this may also reduce the amount of lift. 2. Increase the volume of pump output. Note not pressure, but the Gallons Per Minute (GPM) This would fill the cylinders faster and increase speed. And finally it does not matter which way a cylinder is installed. As your bucket cylinder it still will have to fill the rod end to curl and the barrel end to dump. They only difference in speed may be a loaded bucket will dump faster than an empty bucket due to the weight "pulling" on the cylinder, That is unless there is a restriction in the line.
Found this trying to find more about the hydraulics on your loader,
The working of a hydraulic pump can slow down after continuous work hours. Mostly, the sluggishness in the pump is caused by the hydraulic compensator valve.
You need to get in touch with your mechanic and have your tractor checked because only an expert can detect the faults in valves and fix them accordingly.
However, fixing the valves is a temporary solution. Farmers who keep using the machines with the faulty valves have to suffer the damage of the complete breakdown of the New Holland Workmaster 50 tractors.
Also according to tractor data there are four different loaders that fit your tractor.
I believe your issue has been explained very well in previous posts. but would like to help you possibly understand the whys.
Most hydraulic cylinder have a single rod coming out of the barrel to do work. This rod displaces area of the cylinder so the rod end of the cylinder has less "capacity" than the barrel end, therefore with a given flow the cylinder will retract faster than extend due to the different capacities of the cylinder. Some manufacturers use a cylinder that the rod comes out both ends IH did this on the steering of utility tractors. If the had used a cylinder with only the rod coming out of one end the wheels would turn quicker one way than the other.
Some manufacturers put restrictors in the lowering side of the loader so it could not have an uncontrolable or too fast of a drop. You may want to check and see if if equipped the restrictor did not get installed on the wrong line.
Food for thought: There are two ways to speed up hydraulics. 1 reduce the size of the area that is being filled. Of course this may also reduce the amount of lift. 2. Increase the volume of pump output. Note not pressure, but the Gallons Per Minute (GPM) This would fill the cylinders faster and increase speed. And finally it does not matter which way a cylinder is installed. As your bucket cylinder it still will have to fill the rod end to curl and the barrel end to dump. They only difference in speed may be a loaded bucket will dump faster than an empty bucket due to the weight "pulling" on the cylinder, That is unless there is a restriction in the line.
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How about some photos of your setup!!.
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Click the picture icon in the tool bar above the reply box. It will pop up a box that say “Drop Images here” click in that, then it will open a menu showing options to navigate to the photo storage area; on an iPhone it is “photo library”. There you select the pictures to post and follow the final prompts. I did have some wise cracks to add about what you will show.. patent rights and such, but I will refrain.
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