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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I am not fully upto date on all of the big three but know some about Ford and a bit more about Dodge.
What is the deal with the horse power and toqure rateings and they refuse to give us some decent rear axle ratios.
I started out way back in 1972 with a 3/4 ton ford gasser 4 speed manual trans 4x4 manual hubs with 3:73 ratio. pulled all I asked it to just fine and got decent milage when empty. Next was a 74 Ford 3/4 4x4 with manual hubs and 4:10 ration I did some modifying on this one and was getting over 350 HP hauled all I asked it to and got 17 mpg pulling a 20 ft' flat bed trailer and a 1500 pound load at 70 mph.
:eek: Where is this going you ask? Well today I have a 2004.5 3500 Dodge Cummins 325/600 powered 4x4. It has no Hubs, Manual trans and 3:73 ratio. This thing could easily handle 3:54 ratio loaded trailer with 10,000lbs. Many of us sure don't haul every day so why with all the horse power increses don't the corps. give us more ratios to chose from. Geez it would bring up their CAFE avrage a lot if I could get 20 to 24mpg empty insted of the 18.4 I get now. Unless I am above 55mph the rear wants to break loose every time it hits a small patch of dirt or water on the road. Let me drop those RPM's and get some better milage. Give me some manual hubs to lock and unlock too while they are at it.

:D Al
 

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There are several GOOD companies offering aftermarket gears and differentials that would solve your problem. That is the route I'd go. The big 3 are just looking to supply the minimal options to satisfy the mass market to prevent a lot of special small production, hard to inventory parts on hand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The point I'm trying to get across is the corps sell stuff people don't really need like 4:10 ratios for the masses to pull a travel trailer two weeks a year. It is a sorry truck that makes 300+ HP and 600FPT that can't pull the majorty of the hills in this country with a 354 ratio. Yes there are cases that call for a lower ratio. Like pulling the mountains a lot out west, heavier loads than the once in a while travel trailer such as those fellas hualing a trailer with three cars on it.
But there isn't any choice any more.
Here we had a truck back in the 70's that only put out about 175 HP and a couple hundred FPT with a 4 speed tranny one of the gears being a granny one. Today the horses are in the 300 range toqure is in the 600 range with 5 and 6 speed trannies and the engineers tell us the best we can do is a 3:73 ratio?
POPPY COCK!

:D Al
 

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Alleyyooper, one thing you are forgeting is final drive ratios. Just because one has a 4.10:1 and one has a 3.73:1 does not tell the whole story.

An old 4 speed would have a 4th gear ratio of 1:1 while these new 5 and 6 gears would have a high gear of .7:1 or .8:1.

Assuming a 3.73 rear. A truck with a '70s 4 speed would have a final drive of 3.73 but a new 5 or 6 speed truck would have a final drive of 2.79.

Assuming a 4.10 rear. A truck with a '70s 4 speed would have a final drive of 4.10 but a new 5 or 6 speed would have a final of 3:1.

As your top gear is higher (lower numerically) the rear gears must get lower (higher numerically).

If you were to put a 3.54 or even a 3.25 in vehicles with 325hp & 600 flb of torque you are just asking for motors to be burned up due to people trying to haul in top gears. With 3:54 and a Ford 6 speed you would have a final of 2.58:1.

I would love to have 325/600 getting 18 mpg. My 225/350 gets 9 (88 F350 460 4X4).

But I do agree with you whole heartily about getting hubs on those axles, they need them.

Also for what it is worth, I had a 94 Dodge 3500 Reg cab 4x4 auto with the cummins and got 20 mpg consistently while empty, it had 4:10s in the rear.

Hope some of this made since.
 

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Originally posted by alleyyooper
I am not fully upto date on all of the big three but know some about Ford and a bit more about Dodge.
What is the deal with the horse power and toqure rateings and they refuse to give us some decent rear axle ratios.
I started out way back in 1972 with a 3/4 ton ford gasser 4 speed manual trans 4x4 manual hubs with 3:73 ratio. pulled all I asked it to just fine and got decent milage when empty. Next was a 74 Ford 3/4 4x4 with manual hubs and 4:10 ration I did some modifying on this one and was getting over 350 HP hauled all I asked it to and got 17 mpg pulling a 20 ft' flat bed trailer and a 1500 pound load at 70 mph.
:eek: Where is this going you ask? Well today I have a 2004.5 3500 Dodge Cummins 325/600 powered 4x4. It has no Hubs, Manual trans and 3:73 ratio. This thing could easily handle 3:54 ratio loaded trailer with 10,000lbs. Many of us sure don't haul every day so why with all the horse power increses don't the corps. give us more ratios to chose from. Geez it would bring up their CAFE avrage a lot if I could get 20 to 24mpg empty insted of the 18.4 I get now. Unless I am above 55mph the rear wants to break loose every time it hits a small patch of dirt or water on the road. Let me drop those RPM's and get some better milage. Give me some manual hubs to lock and unlock too while they are at it.

:D Al
I have a 2002 with the Cummins HO motor and the 6 speed manual. I get 23 to 24 mpg empty driving UNDER 55 mpg. Above 50 mpg, the fuel mileage drops off exponentially like a simonized piano.

You actually have the best of both worlds with the 3:73 gears as they give the best performance with towing. Even towing lighter loads around 4,000 to 5,000 lbs. I find that I frequently must shift between 5th and 6th gear to keep the rpms in the sweet spot. 3:73's accomplish this.

I am thinking you must have a short bed truck like me as well. The problem with lousy traction is the all the weight of the truck is concetrated on the front axle and my truck will get stuck on a flat lawn unless I use 4WD or in my case after spinning the tire constantly as you mentioned; I noticed that my traction was OUTSTANDING with the 110 gallon diesel truck bed tank but left me gun shy about carrying it after the first tank cracked and leaked fuel. I have since gotting a much smaller storage box and place about 400 lbs. of lead bars in it to add some ballast weight which drasticly improved traction. Not as good as 800 lbs. of diesel fuel and tank, but not bad.

When you warranty is up, you can switch over to some Warn manual hubs. I will if I ever have any problems with mine. I haven't so far.

If you want the really good fuel mileage; drive 55 mph and under with a really light foot and you will be amazed at the difference.

If you aren't already, I would also strong recommend a good diesel fuel additive such as Power Service, Stanadyne, or John Deere. I also use Lucas fuel oil treatment which seems to have helps a bit with mileage as well.

The easy and cheap way to change your rear end ratio is to sell you OEM tires and install a set of taller aftermarket tires. I installed a set of 4 Walmart 285/75R-16 AT tires on my truck for about $400. $500 if you get a spare which is the largest size spare that will fit under my truck. Your year truck came with OEM 17" rims and I believe the largest size tire that will fit on our truck is the 315/70R-17, but mud flaps would be advised and you may have some slight rubbing on very tight turns. A 285/70R-17 to a 295/70R-17 would not rub at all and there is a possibility of rubbing with the 305/70R-17's. Walmart does not carry any 17 inch truck tires yet so expect to pay around $125 to $180 each for these tires.

If you have a limited slip rear end; you MUST buy a spare tire the same size as you run or you can damage the differential. Be sure to check and verify what is the largest tire that will fit in the spare position. Otherwise expect to carry it in the bed.

Also, if you have already joined the Turbo Diesel Register, now is a great time. LOTS of great info. and experience. It is the Tractor Forum of Dodge Cummins Pickups. :D ;)

<img src="http://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49455&stc=1">

Turbo Diesel Register
 

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You can also buy a GearVendor or US Gear overdrive unit for about $3000 installed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
TDR Been there done that won't again.
So the rear ratios has to be 3:73 or higher like 4:10 to protect the companys from the idits that don't read owners manuals and try to haul in high gear all the time and burn those auto trannys up and try to do a warrenty claim.
My 91 had 3:54's and did just fine.

No my 2004.5 is a long bed. If I wanted a short box I would have bought a Dakota. I've seen the ply wood dumped at the stop lite along with a load of dry wall just last week on a hill :) Told the wife that was fun load the stuff on the cart at the building center, load it in the truck and then play in traffic and load it again:lmao: .
:D Al
 

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Originally posted by alleyyooper
TDR Been there done that won't again.
So the rear ratios has to be 3:73 or higher like 4:10 to protect the companys from the idits that don't read owners manuals and try to haul in high gear all the time and burn those auto trannys up and try to do a warrenty claim.
My 91 had 3:54's and did just fine.

No my 2004.5 is a long bed. If I wanted a short box I would have bought a Dakota. I've seen the ply wood dumped at the stop lite along with a load of dry wall just last week on a hill :) Told the wife that was fun load the stuff on the cart at the building center, load it in the truck and then play in traffic and load it again:lmao: .
:D Al
I purchased my truck at the end of the year when they switched over to the new body style. There were not many if any at all of the long beds left and the few that I found had no options. I got a 1% below invoice, no sales tax, $500 rebate, and 0% financing for 60 months. Plus they gave me $8700 for my 93 Suburban. I jumped on that deal.

I would love to have gotten a long bed but the short bed has its advantages. The new body style has almost no more room in the back seat than the old Quad Cabs. Maybe an inch or two if that. I learned my lesson being a test rat for a first year new body style vehicle with my Suburban. I like the old body style better and the amount of work space under the hood it MUCH more on the 2002.

I would LOVE to have the 325 hp and 600 ft./lbs. of torque. That is SWEET! :thumbsup: I may get a reprogramed ECM later on when my warranty is out from Marco.

That is a nice looking truck! I think the 305/70R-17's are gonna look sweet on it and also fix your rear end ration problem. I got $450 for my OEM Michelin tires used for about 3 months.

I see you have had a bad experience with TDR too ehh:question: I have been having a little pissin' contest with Steve St.Laurent who is the so called moderator for the Political forum. He does the same crap that they do over on the "Islamist Tractor Board". He likes to pick and choose what rules and standards are upheld and blow off whatever he doesn't care about. I was REALLY PO'd when Robin banned Bill Flemming. Bill is a good guy; he just made a mistake and let someone get under his skin. If this sort of think continues; I will probably not renew my membership either. What happened to make you quit?
 

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I meant to ask you what brand truck bed cap is that you have on the bed? How do you like it? If you don't mind my asking; how much did it cost? I was considering one for my truck bed.
 

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See I am on the other side. Give me all the gear you can. With the new OD trannys, you have the advantage of the good crawl ratios for the heavy/sloppy stuff, but still have the OD gear for the hiway. Key for good MPG on these trucks is keeping the speed down. Remember your riving a brick, and every mph over 55 your paying for.


As for the 4wd hub. GOT to have them. My thoughts if you cant get out of the truck to turn a dile, you sould not be buying a 4x4.:D :D Put my money were mt mouth is also, just swapped the junky auto hubs for a nice set of Mile marker manual hubs on my Bronco. Oh and I have 3:55 gears and would LOVE to swap in 3:90's Make life with the 33x12.5 tires I am getting MUCH better.:D
 

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This ia not a 4 wheel drive but I get 80 MPG. But it is cold in the winter and I get wet when it rains also can't pull a trailer. it only goes a little over 40 MPH but down hill it goes faster.
Rodster:furious:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Way back when I bought my 98 Cummins 12 valve I was having fits with oil useage and fuel milage. I was only getting just a bit over 12mpg and was useing a quart of oil every 500 miles and it smoked like a fogger when it was colder that 20F out side. Couldn't get it to go over 2000 rpms even. Stupid Jerk at the dealer where I bought it keep telling me to ask the guys at TDR what was the fix. They (TDR people)just wanted me to buy chips and all kinds of stuff.
A good lawyer fixed that dealer and I got my truck fixed at a different one. Seems they left off the fuel heater wire harness from the relay to the heater. Once that wire was placed on every thing was fine, but I still wasn't happy with the milage seeings as my 91 got constance 20's.

I belong to DTR http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/index.php
and for the most part they are good guys and like most Forums there are those who don't really read to well. I asked if any one had ever used a reese brake controller. I had nobody that replyed to the question but did have a war start over the Jordan and Progie controlers.

The cap is an ARE MX model cost depends on options and the dealer, but are about $1200.00 to start. I saved over $200.00 by driving 35 miles. Nice dealer too, I asked how long it took them after I ordered it and he said about 3 weeks I was told 4 weeks for the truck so ordered it. The truck took 9 weeks, he held the top with no deposit that long. Also at the time of order they had a deal, folding front window, cothes hanger and a dome light for 50.00. I didn't want the clothes hanger but wanted the duel door locks on the gate. He thru in the duel locks when I asked about a swap.
I wasn't crazy about the new style (Truck) either, and passed on some 2002's because of color and bed size. Then waited till Our Jeep dealer became a Dodge dealer too before buying. That is one think I have found is the dodge dealers in this state that are worth a tinkers tink are few and far in between.
The graphics were to set it apart from all the others. Don't reall think the gril guard guards the grill from much except a couple hundred bugs in the summer.
The 325/600 graphic was made by a friend at Chilton Dodge in Wisconsin.
:D Al
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Home made modified mud flaps. I shaped the wings from 22 ga. sheet metal and coated it with herco do it your self bed liner. Got a better picture of the rear ones here some place.
:D Al
 

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Originally posted by alleyyooper
Home made modified mud flaps. I shaped the wings from 22 ga. sheet metal and coated it with herco do it your self bed liner. Got a better picture of the rear ones here some place.
:D Al
Al, those mud flaps turned out REAL nice! I have the Penda Liner flaps on my truck, they work pretty good but don't catch all of the rocks and mud. I like how your flare out much more. :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks for the comments. I made the wings and pulled the flaps outboard because the lower part of the truck rolls in so much if you hung standard flaps they wouldn't do any good. I had the Dodge stock dealer installed splash shields on my 98 and they were a joke. The mud & stone chip line was just a bit farther back.
I shoppped for about a month looking for some good flaps that would work. Yes they are out there at $100.00 a pair. I have $10.00 a pair in the rubber parts I bought from Runnins in Minnesota, about an hour doing/making 4 wings and maybe $5.00 ln left over herco I used on them to stop chipping better than any paint will.
I do still need to install hooks on the lower part so when backing up in deep mud sand or other WELLLLLLLLLL stuff I don;t drive onto them. Yup just hook them to a hanger to raise them higher. when there out of harms way you can lower them again.
I lost the pictures of the rears when our computer crashed last spring. I'll take some new ones soon.
:D Al
 
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