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Old 08-18-2004, 03:44 PM   #1
Kenny
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Fixing flat tires

Had my first flat tire on my JD 5205. My previous experience with a flat tire on my Ford 2000 was such that a local tractor repair guy came and picked up my Tractor, put a boot(?) in both tires (both flat), charged me $80.00 to pick it up, fix it and deliver it back. This time I figured I would take the one tire off the tractor, take it to the dealer myself, get it fixed and put it back on myself, therefore saving myself some money. This time $80.00 to fix one tubeless tire with a tube (plus a sore back from lifting the darn thing by myself). Can't these things be plugged? The hole was pretty small, but by the time I found it, the bead was broken and the tire was halfway off the rim from the weight of the tractor sitting on it all week. The dealer told me that chances are the plug would not hold, so that is why he recommended putting a tube in it. Should I have let the local guy handle it? By the way, tires are not loaded.



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Old 08-18-2004, 05:48 PM   #2
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Kenny, in most cases descretion is the better part of valor and letting the tire guy do the repair is the best course of action as most folks don't have tire irons and the special tools to break the tire bead and getting the tire mounted back on the rim; much less the tire inflator and straps to make the tire hug the rim to get a good seal and seat the tire. If the tire is already off the rim; you can make the tire repair with a tire patch kit. DO NOT use a plug. They do not hold up well in the long run and can damage the tire installing them. Where I think you may run into problems is getting the tire to seal and seat on the rim. They can be royal pain in the butt. Add into this equation, the heavy weight involved and it might not be a bad idea to let the tire guy do it. I have done tire repairs on trailer tires and my F525 tires and they were a bear to break the bead on. I finally had to take the tire to a tire shop to get the tire over the rim. LOT of sweat and cuss words to boot! It is your call but I think all said and done; the tire guy coming out to you or if you want take him the tire and let him make the repair with a PATCH bonded on the inside of the tire. NOT a plug. Sorry to hear you are having such bad luck with the tires and flats. What kind of work are you doing that caused the flat?



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Old 08-18-2004, 08:29 PM   #3
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Chief,

You and I usually see eye to eye on nearly everything... but we'll part ways on this subject. Maybe my view is influenced by the sheer number of tires (over 140) that I have to maintain on a fixed income, but I think every tractor collector should become proficient in tire repairs and acquire enough tools to do the job.

I'll turn 70 very soon and I do all my own tire work, even though I'm disabled. Little kids and old ladies are allowed to squander their money on tire repairs, but tractor collectors should be able to do their own.

George Willer

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Old 08-18-2004, 09:32 PM   #4
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George, my first inclination when I had a flat tire was to fix it myself as I hate the give somebody the $10 to do something I can do. In a few cases I was successful and saved a few bucks. On some of the larger ag tires like on my fathers TW-20 and his partner's Deere 8200; the tires were just too big and required some monster tire irons and specialized equipment. I have helped my father change and mount quite a few tires in the past but nothing as large and rigid as a JD 5205 tire. I cringe to think about doing something like this with the R-4 industrial tires I have on my 4410. When I worked at the John Deere dealership; we usually work ordered out tire changes because it was such a pain. Maybe a front tire but a rear tire would be a son of a gun. I have just beat my head against the wall too many times.

On that note, I am sure you probably have more experience working on various tractors and associated machinery than just about everyone on this website. Speaking for myself and I am sure many others, would be very appreciative if you could pass along some of your experiences in this area and I am sure I can learn a thing or two. Might even save me a dollar or two if I ever have a flat.

By the way; I don't see it so much as parting ways as it is learning something new. After over 20 years of flying helicopters for Uncle Sammy; if you didn't learn something new on each flight, preflight, post flight, or mission debriefing, something was wrong. I always like to get other folk's view or take on things. Learn a hell of a lot that way.

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Old 08-18-2004, 09:40 PM   #5
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The more I think about this; the more I think George makes a great point. This would make an excellent opportunity to share and exchange techniques, and experiences in this area. Sounds like it would be a great way to be more self sufficient and save $80 to boot!

If any of you have experience in this area............throw some ideas out there.

I have been pretty lucky as I have not had any tractor tire flats.

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Old 08-18-2004, 10:04 PM   #6
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Chief,

I don't have experience with really big tires, but I have changed quite a few 13.6 x 38's. Actually, other than breaking a stuck bead that has been on for 40 to 50 years, they are easier than the smaller ones. If they are mounted with the rim on the tractor, they can be hooked on the top of the rim and gravity does most of the work. Kick the bead a couple times and they practically fall on.

A couple years ago, I removed the fluid from 8 38" tires and replaced the tubes. I only use 17" irons.

On the other hand, the little ones can be really difficult. I'm having major problems with a half dozen 4.10/3.50 x 4 that are driving me nuts.

Five of my tractors have complete sets of tires and tubes that were bought on the internet. I've saved a LOT by mounting my own. I'd encourage others to do the same.

George

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Old 08-19-2004, 03:29 PM   #7
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Chief, I just thought I would put the question out there. It sure would be nice to do it myself, but those 16.9X28 are a pain in the back. We tried to put a strap on them to force them on to the rim, but they never budged. I was clearing new trails thru a big patch of cedars and got to close to a trunk. I had bark in the bead in one tire and a hole in the other. I have lots more trails to make, so I anticipate more fun and flats. Thanks for the advice.

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Old 08-19-2004, 05:36 PM   #8
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I hear ya Kenny. I cringe at the thought of fixing a flat on my 43x16-20 R-4 tires on my 4410. They are stiff as Rhino hide!.

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Old 08-20-2004, 05:05 PM   #9
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JD 5205...NICE UNIT...I agree with Cheif about the plug, not a good fix. Your best fix is a tire guy, don't take it to a JD dealer, they typically don't fix tires. Your tire guy can come out to your place and fix it with out taking off the rim.

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Old 08-20-2004, 05:51 PM   #10
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My grandpa took the rear tire off the 4100 to a place that only works on tires and they put a plug in it. That was last year. So far its held up perfectly.
Ryan

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Old 08-20-2004, 05:57 PM   #11
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Just because tire shops will plug tires doesn't make it a good idea. When I managed a tire store we fixed bad plugs all the time, and some plugs (or plug installers) enlarged the hole so much that a tube was required. Patching from the inside is always best, a plug is a lazy mans band aid.

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Old 08-21-2004, 01:27 AM   #12
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When I was in Nevada, I manage a tire store and the AG tires was one area where my guys used to shy away from when I started at the store. I had experience in the repair of AG tires and would end teaching a lot of the guys how to do the repairs. The one thing I am always concerned with is a tire exploding so I always required that the tire be place in the safety cage when it was inflated. Most if not all the tires with punctures were repaired from the inside and then a tube with a boot installed to make the repair complete. Plugging a tire seldom worked and was used only in a emergency and only long enough to get the job finished and then the tire was patched and tubed. As far as I'm concorned the smaller AG tires were always the bears but with the proper tools they could be worked.

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Old 08-21-2004, 09:36 AM   #13
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i would sooner fix rear tractor tires than smaller tires breaking the beads used to be a bit of a challenge but we have a hydraulic bead breaker for that now

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Old 08-23-2004, 08:39 AM   #14
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Put the tire back on the JD 5020, WOW what a bear to do that thing by myself. Next time I will be sure to get a "tire guy" to do it while it is still on the tractor. Ended up bushhogging for about 8 hrs. We have a guy that hays our fields, but half of the fields are real weedy and he did'nt touch them. What a great day. Any seat time is a good time. Question: Are wasps and hornet and those damn horse flies attracted to the JD green or is it the vibrations? I'm guessing it is the vibrations. I got stung twice and bitten once ( damn horse fly? ). That bite still hurts this morning. I didn't swell up, but it left two little white marks and my finger still hurts.

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Old 08-23-2004, 09:06 AM   #15
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Gotta be the JD green. I get deer flies and horse flies around me all the time when using my Deeres, but go to the same fields with the Yanmar (red) and there's no sign of them.

BTW, I don't bother fixing larger tractor tires myself. All of mine are liquid (calcium) filled, so I would need a pump, which has to be maintained. A former farmer has a tire shop in my area and he can fix a tire faster than you can believe. besides, I can go do something else while he's repairing the tire, helping to offset the cost. IMO 80 bucks ain't bad.

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Old 09-09-2004, 02:51 PM   #16
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5205 tires

Bought my 5205 in July, 2003 and had a deer antler punch a hole in a rear tire while bushhogging. It had a relatively slow leak and had to go to the dealer anyway for some warranty work so transportation didn't cost me anything (normally it's $160 round trip so I try to avoid his pickup and fix it myself).

NOTE: I DON'T RECOMMEND THIS UNLESS YOU ARE VERRRY CAREFUL AND HAVE A BIT OF A DEATH WISH.

The new tire was so flexible that they had a devil of a time getting it back on the rim -- kept collapsing inward. They tried a technique that is a bit risky but in a pinch might work with an older, more rigid tire. The trick was to use a jack to manipulate the tire into contact with as much of the rim as possible, remove the valve core, hook up a good strong compressor with a locking chuck, spray some starting ether into the tire and torch it off by tossing a lighted paper towel into the space where the tire wasn't contacting the rim - then turn on the air full force. It sort of worked a couple of times but that new tire was too flexible and slid right back off every time. It's not a recommended technique but is a good thing to have in the back of your head if you're in a desperate situation(whatever that might be). BTW, don't try it if you have tire sealant in the tire as you can get a real good fire going in there.


What I did learn later when I had a front tire come unseated due to low pressure was that I could use my loader to lift the front end just right in order to scrunch the tire bead into contact with the rim. I pumped air into the tire to find out where the air was leaking out around the bead. Then I used a container of tire sealant from the barn which I squirted around the rim at the bead (starting at the top) to get enough of a seal for the thing to reseat as I pumped air in. Of course I didn't have a hole in the tire to repair but haven't had another minute's problem. I check my tire pressures more often too.

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Old 09-09-2004, 11:05 PM   #17
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Just think if you had a backhoe you could use it to lift up the backend to work on flat!

I'll try that one on the wife and see how that flies

Andy

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Old 09-09-2004, 11:12 PM   #18
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Welcome to Tractor Forum Jack. Great to have you aboard. Glad to see you jumping right in there and hope you will be a regular poster.

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Old 09-10-2004, 09:36 AM   #19
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Backhoe

Quote:
Originally posted by chrpmaster
Just think if you had a backhoe you could use it to lift up the backend to work on flat!

I'll try that one on the wife and see how that flies

Andy
Funny you should mention the backhoe. The reason I found this forum is that an old Army flight school classmate, ARCHDEAN, sent me some pix of his new Kubota with a backhoe and I told him how jealous I was that he had one and I didn't. He recommended Tractorforum in his reply and here I am.

I am currently weighing the decision to get a tree shear attachment for the loader or a backhoe. Can't afford both at the same time. I "need" both as I have a lot of ditches to clean out and reslope so they drain better, but I also have a lot of trash trees that volunteered where they shouldn't and overhanging branches that need to be trimmed back to maintain fire lanes, etc.

I've been looking at the Hydra-Clip shear (good video on their site) and the Gregory tree shear. They are designed for skid loaders but can be adapted to a front end loader fairly easily. Need enough hydraulic flow to run them though. Decisions, decisions.

I'd sure be able to put a backhoe to work, though. What's a body to do?
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Old 09-10-2004, 09:45 AM   #20
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Chief, sounds like you have ALL the toys. I have something to aspire to now. Your tool list sounds akin to a kid's wish list from Toys R Us!! The biggest problem you seem to have is what to play (er, WORK) with today.

BTW, how do you use those smilies over to the left? And how do you upload photos? I admit that I haven't really tried to figure it out but if someone wants to take the effort to tell me I'd appreciate it.



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