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Old 10-16-2006, 01:30 PM   #1
fortisi876
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3cyl diesel engine troubleshooting???

Hello all!

Im having some cold start troubles with my tractor, is there a website available that gives some troubleshooting tips?

Im thinking it may need new injectors and/or glow plugs but I didnt want to spend the money without researching it......just in case that is not the problem.

TIA!



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Old 10-16-2006, 02:16 PM   #2
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fortis,

Are you using the glow plug when you try to start the 655? If I remember right, there is a position before start on the ignition switch where the glow plug comes on (a light will also light on your dash) and you should wait until it goes off before starting the tractor.



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Old 10-16-2006, 02:18 PM   #3
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As a 20 year old power plant,

I would make sure that you have CLEAN fresh fuel with some additive!

A GOOD battery (proper size)!!

Good circuit wiring to your glow plugs and do they get hot?

If it will start without hesitation with a shot of either then it most likely is a problem with your glow plugs!

How many total hours does this engine have on it? If you know!

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Old 10-16-2006, 02:48 PM   #4
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If the glow plugs are all functioning properly, the next option I would suggest would be to install the block heater kit part # AR87167 $55.00. You will also need to order the block heater adaptor kit part # AM882530 $46.50.

The kit is very easy to install. The toughest part is breaking loose the threaded engine block plug. They are in REAL tight. I had to use a breaker bar and a 5 ft. cheater pipe to get mine loose. Once it is loose you can install the adaptor kit and block heater kit. If you plug in your tractor about and hour or two prior to each use; it should start right up as well as warm up a LOT faster.

It should start up without the use of a block heater unless the temps are very cold. If the glow plugs are functioning properly and it is still a hard starter, it could be that the cylinder compression is not up to par after all these years and it is a bit cold natured. The block heater would be your best bet to get around this problem. DO NOT use ether. It will end up making the problem worse in the long run.

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Old 10-16-2006, 05:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by JDFANATIC
Are you using the glow plug when you try to start the 655?
- YES

Quote:
Originally posted by Archdean
I would make sure that you have CLEAN fresh fuel with some additive!

A GOOD battery (proper size)!!

Good circuit wiring to your glow plugs and do they get hot?

If it will start without hesitation with a shot of either then it most likely is a problem with your glow plugs!

How many total hours does this engine have on it? If you know!
- And herein may be where the problem lies. The person I purchased it from told me that the tractor sat for almost a yr so he siphoned out the bad fuel and replaced it with clean fuel. He also stated that he changed the all the filters (ie. air, oil, fuel & hydro). Now the question is did he change the fuel after trying to start it with the bad fuel? I dont know. He did warn me that it may have a dirty injector(s).

- I NEED to dbl check the battery size.
- Im not sure about the glow plugs condition or the wiring....is there a simple test I can perform to check for this?
- If I were dealing with a gas motor I would had already shot it with ether to see if Im dealing with a fuel problem or an electrical one. But I have read during my research a few weeks ago that ether was not recommended on diesel motors so I hesitated.
- As for the hours, the hr meter does work and it currently has approximately 554 hrs. I bought it with 548 hrs.

Quote:
Originally posted by Chief
If the glow plugs are all functioning properly, the next option I would suggest would be to install the block heater kit part # AR87167 $55.00. You will also need to order the block heater adaptor kit part # AM882530 $46.50.

The kit is very easy to install. The toughest part is breaking loose the threaded engine block plug. They are in REAL tight. I had to use a breaker bar and a 5 ft. cheater pipe to get mine loose. Once it is loose you can install the adaptor kit and block heater kit. If you plug in your tractor about and hour or two prior to each use; it should start right up as well as warm up a LOT faster.

It should start up without the use of a block heater unless the temps are very cold. If the glow plugs are functioning properly and it is still a hard starter, it could be that the cylinder compression is not up to par after all these years and it is a bit cold natured. The block heater would be your best bet to get around this problem. DO NOT use ether. It will end up making the problem worse in the long run.
- Thats just it Im not sure if the glow plugs are functioning properly.....any help on a how-to for testing this would be appreciated!
- Thnx for the heads up on the block heater that is something I will definitely consider if it'll make life easier for me on these cold starts. HOWEVER, its only been around 50 degrees minimum if not warmer so Im not sure if thats really an issue?

So, at this point, Im hoping to:
1- learn how to check the glow plugs for proper function?
2- learn how to check the injectors for proper flow, if that can be done?

Any other opinions/tips gentlemen?
Maybe check the carb?

If you would just give me a run down on what you would do BEFORE spending the $$$ on new injectors and glow plugs.

I thank all of you for jumping right on this inquiry I REALLY do appreciate it!
Its forums like these that make the internet such a useful tool these days!!!

If any of you ever need info on electrical wiring dont hesitate to PM/email me!
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Old 10-16-2006, 09:00 PM   #6
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fortisi,

Chief raises a good point (although you may have other things going on too), but I remember when I bought my 755, and the dealer told me he wouldn't sell one here in N.E. without a block heater. After thinking about it, I realize I never did try to start the 755 without warming things up with the heater in advance.

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Old 10-16-2006, 09:03 PM   #7
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JDF even in this type of weather? (I see you're in Ct our weather is pretty much similiar)

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Old 10-16-2006, 09:17 PM   #8
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fortis,

In order to troubleshoot the glow plugs, you will need to obtain a Deere shop manual. The problem could be a number of causes such as a relay, fuse or circuit breaker, shorted wire, or a couple of bad glow plugs. You will need a volt meter to test the reistance on the the glow plugs and check wire continuity. I an not real familiar with the 655 so I would need the manual as well.

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Old 10-16-2006, 09:32 PM   #9
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Turn your switch to energize your glow plugs for 15 t0 20 seconds (this test only) unass the seat and feel them if they feel hot THEY WORK!!

Ether on occasion WILL NOT CAUSE ANY MORE HARM then you already have,,, yes prolonged use will defeat initial lubrication that is inherent in diesel fuel for initial start!! THATS ALL!!

50 degrees,, it should purr to a start with no more then 20 seconds of glow plug preheat!!

Diesels do not have a carburetor, instead the injector pump atomizes fuel by pressurizing the fuel up wards of 20,000 psi! by squirting through the injectors!! Buy and use a good additive to clean and keep them clean!!

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Old 10-16-2006, 10:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Archdean
Ether on occasion WILL NOT CAUSE ANY MORE HARM then you already have,,, yes prolonged use will defeat initial lubrication that is inherent in diesel fuel for initial start!! THATS ALL!!

Diesels do not have a carburetor, instead the injector pump atomizes fuel by pressurizing the fuel up wards of 20,000 psi! by squirting through the injectors!! Buy and use a good additive to clean and keep them clean!!
1. Horse feathers! Using ether to start assist a diesel that is not designed for this type of start assist CAN and WILL cause damage to the pistons and rings if used repeatedly. It does NOT take long to turn an engine into an ether baby especially if the ether is sprayed in while the engine is not cranking.

2. More horse feathers! These Yanmar engines don't have anywhere near that kind of pressure in the fuel injector lines or injectors. 20,000 psi is the pressures that common rail diesel engine fuel systems operate at. The pressure test of the fuel injectors on my 4410 calls for 2843 psi +145/-0 determine opening pressure, leakage, chatter and spray pattern of the fuel injection nozzle. I suspect the pressures in the 655's Yanmar are similar.

3. I think Fortis understands that diesels don't have carburetors.
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Old 10-16-2006, 10:24 PM   #11
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First!
No where did I say to use ether Repeatedly!! In fact I agreed!!!

Second! Injector pumps produce pressures up to and above 20,000 PSI! As against gasoline fuel pumps that opperate at approx 8 PSI

Third! The poster asked about "Any other opinions/tips gentlemen?
Maybe check the carb?"

Fourth! FYI,
Pump Features:

Simple, compact, cost efficient design
Pressure capability to 2000+ bar (29,000 PSI)
Geometric displacement up to:
1,000 mm3 for 2 piston
2,000 mm3 for 4 piston
Maximum speed of 4500 PRPM
Inlet fuel temperature range of 40°C to 100°C
Single fluid pump (diesel) with RME compatibility
Inlet metered
Easily adaptable to a wide range of engine configurations

Fifth! Smooth thy feathers, Horse or otherwise!!

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Old 10-17-2006, 05:35 AM   #12
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The 655 Yanmar engine (16 HP, 3 Cyl) produces 22.5 to 1 compression and the injector pump pressure at the injector nozzle is 2275 psi. Using a 3T75U engine for comparison, witch is not identical but very, very close.

Although there are two schools of thought regarding ether as a starting aid, every owners, parts and IT shop manual I have states NEVER use starting fluid.

Early Yanmar engines with thermal-start and later models with glow plugs utilize an oversized (comparatively) intake manifold to combine the necessary air, cylinder compression and fuel. When the air is replaced with ether...the damage is devastating. Can you get away with it once in a while? Probably, but when I pull a head and see galled pistons, liner walls, bent rods and cylinder heads with the identical texture of a golf ball, I know immediately to shop for a used engine vs rebuild due to the effects of ether.

I realize that ether is used in a wide variety of engines including diesel...but the Yanmar (and most all Japanese) engines will explode if the spray duration of starting fluid is miscalculated by a single second.

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Old 10-17-2006, 06:22 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by fortisi876
JDF even in this type of weather? (I see you're in Ct our weather is pretty much similiar)
fortisi,

I guess I was thinking of our last couple of mornings that were around the freezing mark. At 50F, you shouldn't need to heat the block. At 32F and below, your diesel will love you a whole lot more.
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Old 10-17-2006, 10:47 AM   #14
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Thnx guys!

Holy crap are some of you passionate on this topic!!!
I didnt mean to start a fight amongst any of you! LOL!

Anyhow, I found a lil article online about checking the glow plugs with a test light so Im gonna go try that in a lil while. However, that really isnt a sure bet cuz I also read even tho they may still light up the test light they can still be on the brinks of failure so there is another more involved method for testing that Ill have to keep in mind if they all light up.

Like anything else these days, they dont look easy to get to so I have some work ahead of me taking other parts off just to get to them.

Ive also read that if Im 'sucking air on suction line' that Id have a hard time starting. Altho Im not sure if they're speaking of the rubber lines or not Im now thinking about buying some new hoses and replacing them all to see if that improves anything.

And I may consider checking the hard lines from the pump to the injectors for any blockage and the injectors themselves too.

My local dealer doesnt really make home calls just yet otherwise Id consider dropping a boatload having them do it but I REALLY do like working on my own equipment so learning from you guys means a lot!

Thnx!

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Old 10-17-2006, 09:40 PM   #15
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No fight here!

You asked a good question and I tried to give you what you asked for!

I'm only responsible for my own actions and I harbor no animosities for those that think differently!

If it helped you with your problem, that's a good thing! All members are free to use and benifit from wherever they might find education!! OR NOT!!

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Old 10-18-2006, 08:08 PM   #16
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Well, assuming ALL glow plugs function the same and the test I found is accurate, I have discovered I have 2 bad plugs. The whole test light thing didnt work out for me since I had to take the battery out amongst some other parts to get to the plugs. I used the continuity mode on my volt/ohm meter, the first two plugs had none but the last plug tested did have continuity indicating that its still good.

Ill keep you guys posted if this fixes my dilemna!

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Old 10-19-2006, 05:12 PM   #17
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BINGO!

New glow plugs = no more cold start problem.

Thnx for the advice gentlemen!

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Old 10-19-2006, 05:23 PM   #18
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Your Welcome!!

Simple wasn't it?

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Old 10-19-2006, 06:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by fortisi876
BINGO!

New glow plugs = no more cold start problem.

Thnx for the advice gentlemen!
fortisi,

Glad you figured it out. Hope that 655 gives you a lot of years of great service. Keep us posted as to your likes and dislikes.
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Old 10-19-2006, 07:39 PM   #20
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Will do!

For my purposes (light duty landscaping for the most part) I think it'll do just find. I picked up almost $400 worth of parts today at my JD store......everything from typical tune up parts to some replacement pieces for my hitch and new isolators (engine mounts) to stop that excess motor vibration.

The only other 'issue' I need to look into is the hydraulics problem Im having with my bucket not holding its position when face down and trying to drag (level) some dirt while going backwards.



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