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Old 12-20-2010, 08:30 AM   #1
Jason4100
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John Deere 4100/410 Bucket Cylinder

Looking for some help. My left bucket cylinder has been lagging the right cylinder for some time now when I remove my bucket. So I bought a rebuild kit for it and spent 2 hours trying to get the end cap off. I found a little slot which looks like a snap ring is installed. I was able to get the snap ring to start to come out of the slot then it broke? The seal kit doesn't come with this snap ring. Is the cylinder pressed together? I don't see how that snap ring can come out of that slot? Any one have this problem? I have never seen this type of hydraulic cylinder?

Jason



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Old 12-23-2010, 11:23 AM   #2
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Check out this video on YouTube that may give some help.

There are several others. Good luck! *************** Moderators noteTried to fix it, but it still won't put you on directly. Sorry!************


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Old 12-23-2010, 11:31 AM   #3
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Not that I can help, but I'll weigh in on this.... On my 990, one cylinder will always cycle faster than the other, with no bucket or attachment hooked up. I think it's like a rear end, in that the fluid will go to the cylinder with the least resistance, in which typically it's the cylinder closest to the supply line ie the one that has the least distance. Your cylinder I believe could possibly be fine! I have also been told by our local JD mechanic, that the cylinders need to be pulled apart with quite a bit of force. He told me that even the smaller cylinders like we have on our machines, are attached to an anchor in the shop floor, and a regular forklift used to pull them apart. Hope this helps!

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Old 12-23-2010, 11:40 AM   #4
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Greenflyer, thanks for sharing the video. My cylinders have always bled down since new also, making me want to sell my JD and get a Kubota instead. It always pissed me off that JD would use cheap cylinders like this, so one day, I'll be a Kubota man, and hopefully not too far off, either!

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Old 12-23-2010, 12:33 PM   #5
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We have a 430 loader on the 970. So far I have not had any problems with it.

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Old 12-23-2010, 12:38 PM   #6
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GF, your bucket doesn't settle if you leave it set for a couple hours, empty?

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Old 12-23-2010, 01:20 PM   #7
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I have never left the bucket off the ground when I am not using it. I have turned the bucket over onto the teeth and let it sit overnight, but never off the ground. I leave some residual pressure in the cylinders when I am done using it for awhile. The cylinders have never leaked, so other than washing and wiping down, I leave them alone. A couple of years ago the power steering cylinder developed a leak. I removed it, took it the shop and had it rebuilt and polished. It has been fine after about a hundred hours use.

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Old 12-23-2010, 08:05 PM   #8
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I roll my bucket up and park the loader on the ground so as to keep the cylinders from being exposed to moisture and rusting, but with my loader, just a few minutes with a load and the cylinders are giving out. Like I said, next tractor purchase here in a couple years will be a Kubota. Pretty certain of that.

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Old 12-23-2010, 09:41 PM   #9
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Jason that c/clip that you had so much fun with is in fact a piece of wire very come on agri hydrolyse cylinder M/F used them on the old M/F45/50 backhoe/loaders to remove you wind them out by rotating the head crown normally in a c/c direction but as you looking in to the hole you see the end of the wire its has one end bent at 90deg fitting in hole in the barrel you my have to use a screwdriver to try and feed the end out as you rotate the crown

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Old 12-24-2010, 07:16 PM   #10
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Thanks for the replys. I ended up taking the cylinder to a local hydraulic supply store and they cut the end of the cylinder off rebuilt it and tig welded it all back together for 100.00. But my problem still exsists. The right cylinder still moves all the wat out until it stops then the rebuilt cylinder moves to the end of its stroke. The front end loader is a 410 and I might look into what greenflyer did with his cylinders. Very nice job and well done.

Jason

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Old 12-24-2010, 07:21 PM   #11
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Jason, they all do that. My 889 did it since new. Don't worry about it!

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Old 12-24-2010, 07:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tractor beam View Post
Not that I can help, but I'll weigh in on this.... On my 990, one cylinder will always cycle faster than the other, with no bucket or attachment hooked up. I think it's like a rear end, in that the fluid will go to the cylinder with the least resistance, in which typically it's the cylinder closest to the supply line ie the one that has the least distance. Your cylinder I believe could possibly be fine! I have also been told by our local JD mechanic, that the cylinders need to be pulled apart with quite a bit of force. He told me that even the smaller cylinders like we have on our machines, are attached to an anchor in the shop floor, and a regular forklift used to pull them apart. Hope this helps!
Jason, if you go to the dealer, every machine on their lot will do the same thing as yours. The hydro fluid goes to the cylinder with the least resistance, which will be the cylinder closest to the supply line coming from the valves. No need to waste your dough on rebuilds!
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Old 12-24-2010, 08:06 PM   #13
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That is not me in the video. I found it on YouTube. I am trying to picture just what is happening with your cylinders and the un-even operation. The pressure should be the same throughout the entire system. I am thinking it can only be a supply, leak, or mis-matched cylinder issue. Fluid level? Are the hoses hooked up properly?

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Old 12-25-2010, 12:58 AM   #14
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Jason, I sent you a PM!

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Old 12-25-2010, 01:24 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenFlyer View Post
That is not me in the video. I found it on YouTube. I am trying to picture just what is happening with your cylinders and the un-even operation. The pressure should be the same throughout the entire system. I am thinking it can only be a supply, leak, or mis-matched cylinder issue. Fluid level? Are the hoses hooked up properly?
I don't believe it's an issue. The system pressure is the same, it's just that the one cylinder is closer to the supply line than the other. My 990 will do the exact same thing when the bucket is off. The 2 rams work independently of each other, and it just operates the cylinder with the least resistance first, then the more difficult one next. Jason, they all will do that to a certain extent, unless they have an attachment or are tied together like the bigger machines. My 990 did it since new. The right cylinder will cycle all the way in or out, before the left begins to cycle. I really wouldn't worry about it.
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Old 12-25-2010, 02:10 AM   #16
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Great videos both 1 and 2 GF! Mars1952 put not only a lot of effort into his project, but also the documentation as well as noting his mistakes within his video. Very informative!

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Old 12-25-2010, 09:18 PM   #17
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Yea, that guy did a great job with the videos. It is amazing what one can find on YouTube these days. Last winter I found a video on how to replace the door handle on the sliding door of a Honda Odyssey. Who would have thought? I already knew how to replace a door handle on several different vehicles. It was really just a fluke find. I was searching for videos on how to repair/adjust a Tecumseh carburetor for a snowblower.

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Old 12-25-2010, 10:00 PM   #18
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I was trying to think of a way to get him to join our forum! What a great addition to our community! Did you see the second part? Must see!

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Oh Beautiful for smoggy skies, insecticided grain,
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America, America, man sheds his waste on thee,
And hides the pines with billboard signs, from sea to oily sea
***** The best customer of American industry is a well paid worker **** Don't believe everything you think.

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Old 12-26-2010, 01:22 PM   #19
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Yea, I watched the second part. He did a great job with both videos. The picture quality was very good. He had alot of awesome workshop tips.

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Old 01-14-2011, 05:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason4100 View Post
Looking for some help. My left bucket cylinder has been lagging the right cylinder for some time now when I remove my bucket. So I bought a rebuild kit for it and spent 2 hours trying to get the end cap off. I found a little slot which looks like a snap ring is installed. I was able to get the snap ring to start to come out of the slot then it broke? The seal kit doesn't come with this snap ring. Is the cylinder pressed together? I don't see how that snap ring can come out of that slot? Any one have this problem? I have never seen this type of hydraulic cylinder?

Jason
Hi Jason: This response is a little late but the loader cylinders need to be mechanically locked together for them to move together. If you look at the plumbing of the cylinders the right one probably gets fluid before the left one. The right on will fill and them the left one.
I had the same trouble on my JD4300 with a 420 loader. The quick hitch parts are connected with a solid bar. The bar is pinned to the quick hitch parts. When one of the pins falls out or snaps the quick hitch parts will work independently. After I replaced the pins my Loader was back to normal. I made a video of the project and posted it on Youtube. Here is the link:
Please Comment, share and "Like" my videos.
Thanks, Mars
P.S. A picture is worth a thousand words and a 10 minute video has about one hundred thousand pictures in it.


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