Live Oak

This is not a good sign for Ford. I have never been a Powerstroke fan but the trucks have been what carried Ford. This will really cause a train wreck in Fords truck sales if this is a long term or permanent thing. I think Ford makes a good truck but their engine and power train could be better.

Navistar suspends diesel engine production; says Ford not honoring terms

Ford Motor Co. said Monday morning that a decision by key supplier Navistar International Corp. will not disrupt production of SuperDuty pickups "in the near term." However, the automaker would not say how long it could keep its truck lines running if the recalcitrant vendor holds out.

Navistar announced Monday that it has halted production of the Power Stroke diesel engine it makes for Ford because of an ongoing contract dispute. The Warrenville, Ill.-based engine manufacturer is the exclusive diesel engine supplier for Ford's heavy duty pickup trucks.

In a statement today, Navistar said it "pays its suppliers and employees under contract terms and that it expects Ford to honor the terms of its agreement."

But Ford said Navistar is the one violating that contract.

"Ford has always honored the agreement and will continue to do so in the future," said Ford spokesman Tom Hoyt. "We have been working very closely with Navistar for many months to resolve these contract issues."

In January, Ford sued Navistar, saying the engine maker was not complying with warranty cost-sharing agreements and that it had unjustifiably raised prices on its products. The suit said at the time that Navistar had threatened to cut off shipment if Ford did not pay the new prices for its engines.

Navistar said it will stop making the 6.4-litre Power Stroke at its Indianapolis and Huntsville, Ala. factories, but added that the Huntsville plant will continue production for other customers.

Any disruption of SuperDuty production would be disastrous for Ford. The struggling automaker just launched a redesigned SuperDuty line, and the big trucks are among the most popular and profitable vehicles it sells.

It is not the first time problems with a supplier have threatened an important new vehicle. Last fall, bankrupt Collins&Aikman Corp. briefly suspended parts shipments to Ford's factory in Hermosillo, Mexico, halting production of the Ford Fusion.

Archdean

Sounds like corporate blackmail to me!

I have never owned any other trucks than those made by Ford with the exception of a Dodge one ton stake bed X (it was terrible)!!

My present pickup is a F150 (1991) w/57000 miles and have been thinking about repainting it as I will never get rid of it, Fords paint jobs are not all that great and it has been outside all of these years and is faded but the engine and body are as good as new!

Now since I bought my GF a little Toyota SR5 Tacoma a few months back and have driven it a bit on a trip or two, I promised to go test drive Toyota's new full size Tundra Pickup this spring!!

Might just get more than interested in this! It's going to big hit in the American truck market with-out-a-doubt!!


2007 Full Size Tundra Pickup Link

Dean

__________________
Dean

"Flashlights are tubular metal containers kept in a flight bag for the purpose of storing dead batteries."

Show Tractor 1940 Farmall B,
Kubota RTV900 WS, Kubota B7510 HST, LA302 FEL, B4672 BackHoe, LandPride RTA1050 Tiller, Kubota TG1860 W/54"deck....

Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less. - General Robert E. Lee

Lamar Holland

I don't feel sorry for Ford. Why is it these 6.0 motors in IH school busses don't have the problems Ford has., Simple answer, IH doesn't use computers to push the horse power/ torque ratings to Oh my God and the needed pressures to obtain those high numbers, Far as I'm concerned, Ford better design a better computer program.

__________________
This morning I woke up with nothing to do.. It is now afternoon, and I have over half of it done.
Digging in hard, hard clay is much more relaxing to a worm than going fishing..

Live Oak

This could be a blessing in disguise for Ford. They already offer the Cummins and Caterpillar diesel in the larger trucks. Both would make a MUCH better alternative to the Powerstroke. The Powerstroke engine was what kept me from buying a Ford truck. If it would have been offered with the Cummins or Cat engine; I would be driving a Ford truck.

Lamar Holland

I highly doubt you will see the 6.7 Cummins in a Ford. Don't forget, Ford in 81 had 8% of Cummins and that was disastrous. Good thing Ford didn't keep the stock very long. I laugh at this because the 6.0 powers hundreds if not thousands of Navistar school busses. How come these haven't the problems with leaks, power and every thing else,,, I believe it is because Navistar allowed the 6.0 to stay at 200 HP and 380 torque as designed and not take a computer software program to tweak this to 360/600 or whatever it is FOrd claims..

__________________
This morning I woke up with nothing to do.. It is now afternoon, and I have over half of it done.
Digging in hard, hard clay is much more relaxing to a worm than going fishing..

ducati996

Let me just say this as to which brand hasnt had a load of problems? I read just as much issues with Cummins products offered in Dodge/chevy ? - plenty of dedicated websites that kind of back what I say. I understand the powerstroke 6.0 when first introduced had issues with the injectors, turbos and such. But thats been resolved since 2003. Honestly I dont care because its under warranty regardless, and I have found many,many happy owners of Ford F550's (350's as well) with the 6.0 turbo (myself included). One particular website has ton's of happy Ford owners as well as the 6.0 series - www.fordtruckenthusiasts.com

I like Fords products - I hate to see them in the hurt that they are now, but overall I think they are the best - IMO of course

Both my Navigator and 2006 Ford F550 6.0 have been trouble free - I never was the type to believe whats posted on the net especially when its brand vs brand all over again. Not saying this thread is a brand bash, but overall I find counter points on each negative mentioned regarding Ford. Believe me I never need to justify my own purchases or feel compelled to do so at anytime.
I do agree its a bullchit move on Navistars part - if they cut off their nose to spite their face - who else can move their product like Ford?

Still one very happy Ford owner - and its not my only brand either

Duc

ducati996

I have no doubt the sudden price increase between the 6.0 and new 6.4 is because of the USLD requirements. It was known when I grabbed my F550 in July 07' that these 6.4 engines would be a huge jump in price, so acting right away was a good thing.
6.0 can handle old and new fuel, 6.4 only use USLD....they bumbed up the displacment in order to handle the xtra emission requirements. Not much of a performance difference between 6.0 and 6.4. Trust me the 6.0 as it stands is a power house with plenty to spare.

johndeere

I have been around them all never owned one.But at work.They started out with Fords with the Navistar.Fuel hogs and could not pull the hat off your head.Then they went with the Dodge Ram with the inline Cummins.Nice change from the Fords.Plenty of power and a lot better fuel economy.Then came the GMC with the Duramax better yet.But I still think the inline Cummins was every bit as good and will probably last longer.I am sure Fords newer Navistar is better then these older ones.The Last Fords were 90 or 91.The Dodge rams replaced them starting in 94 and they went with GMC recently 2004.

I do not mean this as a bash in anyway.I just drive the darn things.I will never own a full size pickup.I am considering a GMC Canyon or a Chevy Colarado plain Jane with more then likley a 4 cylinder.I would have to sell my house to by a truck like that and can not believe how many I see on the road.I can not figure out why and how they afford them

ducati996

I think they actually all make good trucks - and the japanese thus far havent figured out how to make trucks like the US companies do. I hate seeing these guys suffer and I hope they all stick around. Looks like GM is pulling together, Ford is still suffering as well as Chrysler.

I looked at all 3 and would have been happy with any one of them. It really turned out on the payload, and dump body (mason 4 yrd true) I wanted, along with zero financing that made the choice for me. I kept the cash in the bank collecting interest.

Duc

Archdean

"and the japanese thus far havent figured out how to make trucks like the US companies do." And that gives Toyota a leg up in MO!

Joe, perhaps you didn't see the link above but Toyota is now positioned to dig very deep into the American truck market, what do you bet that you will soon see a lot of these, definitely a serious player against Dodge, Chevy and Ford even with out a diesel as the economics of diesel ownership have been turned upside down lately for the average truck buyer!

Dean

__________________
Dean

"Flashlights are tubular metal containers kept in a flight bag for the purpose of storing dead batteries."

Show Tractor 1940 Farmall B,
Kubota RTV900 WS, Kubota B7510 HST, LA302 FEL, B4672 BackHoe, LandPride RTA1050 Tiller, Kubota TG1860 W/54"deck....

Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less. - General Robert E. Lee

ducati996

Dean,

I totally agree, it’s their market to grab and it’s by no coincidence the big 3 have been losing market share. But right now they don’t offer anything that is bigger than the Tundra which falls in line with the F150 series from Ford and the equivalent from GM or Chrysler. I’m just talking commercial vehicles at or under 26,000 lb GWVR. Resting on their laurels is not a good position for this competitive market and with their financial situations -

Can only hope things turn around for them fast

johndeere

Dean I dought it.Face it the average full size truck buyer does not like import brands.They believe in buy American when ever possible.They dont fall for the line But there made here.You just dont see that many Yuppies driving full size trucks.

Archdean

So Nick who are these people????

Seems clear to me Nick and I recall Americans saying buy American but then buy Quality and price over Loyality to country!!

We sat on our fat and produced JUNK for years, Ergo here comes Honda/Toyota and yes throw in Kubota while your at it!!

Quality SELLS Nick and the Big Three are hamstrung to the likes of unions and just push it out the door mentality!! Not so our Asian Brothers!!




Challenges in Truck Country
By Melissa Anderson, Vice President, IRN, Inc. and

A number of factors have conspired to set up a slow year for U.S. light vehicle sales and production in general, but one of the most painful aspects for the Big Three might be the state of the pickup truck market. Big trucks have typically meant bigger profits for the automakers, on the order of $2,000 for a pickup vs. $500 for a mid-level passenger car, for example. The tilting of the U.S. market in favor of light trucks over the past ten years has been beneficial to the Big Three, and their flagship trucks are among their highest-volume platforms: GM produces over 900,000 Sierra/Silverado pickups annually; Ford F-Series pickups are over 800,000 units a year; and Dodge's flagship Ram pickup runs about 400,000 units. The stakes are high for the Big Three, and the challenge is growing.

Macroeconomic Factors
High fuel prices led to concerns about the light truck market in 2005, but our statistical analysis showed virtually no correlation between fuel prices and light truck sales. This lack of relationship is particularly true for pickup trucks because there are few substitutes for their functionality, whereas SUV users might be better able to turn to a more fuel-efficient alternative if they felt inclined to do so. Our assessment was that fuel prices would need to remain above $3.00 per gallon for a sustained period before we would see a significant impact on light truck sales. Fortunately for all of our wallets, unleaded gasoline spiked in 2005 and again to the $3.00 mark in 2006, but has not remained at that level.

More concerning is the softening of housing starts. As the accompanying graph shows, there is a strong similarity in the pattern of pickup truck sales and housing starts, since the construction sector is a heavy consumer of vehicles in this segment. The fact that new home sales are falling and the inventory of single-family homes on the market is rising does not bode well for pickup truck demand. The outlook for housing will be weak through most of 2007, and we will not see a full recovery until sometime in 2008. Over the long term, the pickup segment is stable, but it rides the economic cycle of expansion and contraction to a greater degree than other segments, so in the near term it will continue to decline.



US Pickup Truck Sales vs US New Home Starts (R-12)
Market Share Factors
Aside from macroeconomic conditions, the Big Three are facing a familiar threat on a new front. The New Domestics collectively have captured almost 60% of the U.S. passenger car market, up from almost 40% 10 years ago. Now they are applying themselves to the light truck market and are bolstering their strong positions in minivans, SUVs, and crossover utility vehicles, with a foray into pickups. As the chart shows, the New Domestics as a group constitute 36% of the U.S. light truck market, up from 17% nine years ago. New pickup truck offerings could help fuel further penetration.

The Japanese-owned automakers have not been competitive in this market segment historically, but they are masters at traveling down the learning curve. Toyota has evolved its pickup offering from the early undersized T-100 to the old Tundra pickup to a new Tundra that should be a success as it ramps up production in 2007. The company employed American engineers in the development of the new model, so its features, including an all-new 5.5-liter V8 engine, are more likely to satisfy the core pickup audience. Toyota also situated the new Tundra assembly plant in San Antonio, TX�the heart of the market, a state that constitutes 25% of the nation's pickup sales.



US Light Truck Market Share by OEM 3 Month Moving Average
The other members of the Japanese Big Three are driving along a similar route. Honda has yet to get all the details right�its Ridgeline pickup is of unibody construction with a V6 engine, so it cannot haul or tow enough to be a serious contender, but it is a good-looking step in the right direction. Nissan's full-size pickup, the Titan, beat Toyota to the market in terms of size and power, but it has not been overly successful. This illustrates an interesting point about the pickup truck segment. The nature of the core pickup truck buyers�farmers, skilled tradespeople, construction workers�is such that these are customers who tend to place a premium on loyalty to long-term American brands. In this market segment more so than others, it takes more than good product to win over American consumers.

The State of the Segment
It won't be an easy year for those who rely on the pickup truck segment. Demand is contracting due to the economic environment and slow housing market. Major competitors have come in with new offerings. Suppliers that are on pickup platforms should apply a dose of realism to volume expectations through an understanding of the market dynamics and economy. For now, GM and Ford will continue to swap punches, with GM having the better position this year thanks to its all-new GMT 900 Silverado/Sierra trucks. The Dodge Ram, as the oldest of the pickup truck models on the market, will find this a particularly difficult market until its next redesign in 2008-2009. The Japanese will not be able to make significant inroads into the pickup segment immediately or even over a few years, for reasons of consumer mentality but also because they do not have a platform or engine to build three-quarter and one-ton pickups, so they are not able to serve that subsegment at all. But they have exhibited diligence and patience in the past, so 10 years from now, who knows? The Big Three put a lot of resources into their pickup-truck products, and they will not yield the segment easily. It promises to be an interesting and challenging time in Truck Country.

__________________
Dean

"Flashlights are tubular metal containers kept in a flight bag for the purpose of storing dead batteries."

Show Tractor 1940 Farmall B,
Kubota RTV900 WS, Kubota B7510 HST, LA302 FEL, B4672 BackHoe, LandPride RTA1050 Tiller, Kubota TG1860 W/54"deck....

Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less. - General Robert E. Lee

Eddinberry

I gotta agree.

This is gonna hamstring Ford, but they did it to themselves.
They have forgotten thier Market, and have been hampered by Union labor issues.

I went truck shopping two years ago for a Solid 3/4 ton 4wd truck.

I asked for a plain jane, no frills work truck, for the Farm.
Vinyl bench seat, No power anything, A/C, rubber floors, no radio.
Std. Cab.

After bieng shown everyones quad cab, leather seated, prissed out, yuppified versions, and then bieng asked to pay 40-50 Grand for what I do NOT need I gave up.

Then by a Fluke I found a Used fleet 2500HD with low miles and snagged it.

Am still waiting for any of the three to get back to making a truck that ain't all plastic in the wrong places, and lousy drivelines.

Toyota???

For a 1/2 Ton the thing seems to be decent.
The Price is still ridiculous, as are all of them.

When Toyota figures out how to make a 3/4 or 1 Ton truck, The big three will be hosed.

Simply put, they have ticked everyone off to the point that a new option will see many walking away.

The Chevy Duramax is actually an Isuzu.....
So it's already starting.


Hate to see it, but it's gotta happen to push the big three off of thier Laurels.

Stay safe!
Eddinberry

__________________
Whaddya mean nothing grows in the sand???

Archdean

"The Chevy Duramax is actually an Isuzu.....
So it's already starting."

Pat, I can remember when we used to snicker/guffaw at names like Isuzu/Datsun/Toyota!! We snicker no more just look at the Diesel delivery trucks running around your neighborhood and most will now have either a Navistar or a Japanese Heavy Industry Name plate like Isuzu!!

Closer to home, when most of the modern diesels in tractors/ equipment and trucks are coming from the likes of Isuzu/Yanmar/Kubota and other Asian producers can we say that the 3/4 ton / 1 ton market is owned by us!! Not if your at all awake!!

Dean

__________________
Dean

"Flashlights are tubular metal containers kept in a flight bag for the purpose of storing dead batteries."

Show Tractor 1940 Farmall B,
Kubota RTV900 WS, Kubota B7510 HST, LA302 FEL, B4672 BackHoe, LandPride RTA1050 Tiller, Kubota TG1860 W/54"deck....

Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less. - General Robert E. Lee

johndeere

I just do not think Toyota will take over the truck industry.There are three groups of people.

1.The ones that buy full size pickup trucks and there second vehical there wifes drive in many cases is a Tahoe SUV.They have a image to keep up.A few might have a sporty little import but that again just a image thing.They do not haul anything in the truck bed and never go off road to use the 4wheel drive.

2.Second group are the Consumer reports subcriber saftey crash test rating saftey side air bag curtain.Soccer mom and dad type.Hug a tree save the planet earth type.They will buy into the fuel milage is better consumer reports rated it better and the crash dummy lived.Walmart shopper buy anything just so its not made here.Because American factory workers are lazy uneducated how dare they need health care coverage.They never went to college.So why should I support there crappy vehical thats not as good because I seen a article in Consumer reports that said so type.There buying cars and SUV'S not to many pickup trucks

3.Then you have the third group.Farmers, Ranchers, Construction,Maybe rancher and Construction contractors might try a Toyota.But I can not think of one farmer from my area who would go for it?These guys use a truck.There not afraid to scratch the bed.They do not put a cover over the bed.They have a DMI bumper on the back and never pull anything that has a ball hitch.They buy local not from the big city.They would not like taking the Cracks given at the local farmers table for driving a Rice burner.

I just do not get all the American big 3 did it to there self.Because they produced junk for so many years?Todays vehicals run a lot more miles then they use to.They do not need a tune up every 30000 miles.There quiter they handle better.They do not rust out like they did in the 70's.The gas mileage is a lot better then back then.

If the American UAW workers and there greedy union did it.Then why are'nt these import brands where there not affected by big Union greed and over paid lazy American workers that make to much and have to good of a health care package.Then just why is it those Toyotas are not atleast a little cheaper to buy?Like the Hyudai?If I was buying into it I would only consider a Hyudai because im cheap.I would not be buying it because its better.I know darn good and well I would need that 100000 mile warranty then.

America better wake up soon.If its not to late already.They need to wave that flag for more things then just millitary reasons.Stop cutting there own throat.Stop saying im not affected so I do not give a damn.Because the day is closer then they think that there pay check is going to be afected.You just can not stop the domino affect.
But its to late because were just to dumb to put a stop to it.Are we all going to pack up and move to Tennessee to work for the Japs and Korenas to build up there bank accounts.Along with the other hand full of American companies that went there because of there lowest property tax in the nation.Wake Up America!

Archdean

Nick you made some good points!

In reply!

1. More Suv types are sold today then Full sized PU'S and that's where the company profit lies in the NUMBERS SOLD!

2. OK Walmart shoppers are stupid then again maybe not, yes they do read consumer reports (perhaps even talk to their satisfied neighbor who just bought a Toyota or Honda and just why did you hold out for a Honda powered pressure washer last week) and they tend to vote with their pocket book!

3. Farmers/Ranchers/Construction Workers----- Nick How many JD dealers did you have in ILL 10 years ago? How many do you have Today? BTW how many Orange tractors or McCormick's (now English)did you see on your way home today?

The rest of it!!

American Manufactures lost the market because they produced CRAP while the Foreign (some at least ) produced a Quality product, Honda comes to mind here, if you have a major road project going on in your area Nick I will guarantee you that you will see more heavy equipment working under foreign badges then you will see under the Caterpillar badge today!! Are these Contractors Un American? No! It's reliability and their bottom line Nick that has changed!!

Dean

__________________
Dean

"Flashlights are tubular metal containers kept in a flight bag for the purpose of storing dead batteries."

Show Tractor 1940 Farmall B,
Kubota RTV900 WS, Kubota B7510 HST, LA302 FEL, B4672 BackHoe, LandPride RTA1050 Tiller, Kubota TG1860 W/54"deck....

Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less. - General Robert E. Lee

ducati996

As mentioned earlier what sent these guys into a tail spin was one of many things but the main ones would be:

1. Labor - Unions -

2. Fuel prices - really sent the the makers into a nose dive



I do feel overall the big 3 make great cars, SUV's and trucks.
I think for example the Cherokee is a great looking SUV, the Lincoln navi, Yukon, Escalade, denali, GMC trucks, F150 -550, GM2500 series, just to name a few are the best looking on the road. The power trains offered on these along with the factory extended warranty add's to both the quality and longevity.
I dont like the look and feel of the fake SUV's ( I say fake because if it dosent have 4wd low, and enough ground clearance) then its limited. This includes the lexus, toyotas, benz, BMW's, hondas, cross overs and many more.
Yes this is personal opinion but overall I think the big 3 makes great cars. Yes they made some dud's but overall I think the line is pretty solid - They just have the labor unions and energy costs to contend with. Bad timing also plays into this...
also lot of the loss of sales is from all the negative press and restructuring going on. This plays big in the the buyers mind. They may really want a Ford or Chevy, but the uncertainy they are projecting right now forces the buyer to choose foreign.

Heck my 2001 honda accord (daily driver) has been in the shop more than all my others vehicles combined. I just had its transmission replaced - under a class action warranty dispute.
Go figure? its supposed to be the best of the fleet- I dont feel that way honestly....

Duc

johndeere

How many John Deere dealers?Well one dealer bought out several in this area and is now in the top ten biggest John Deere dealers in the nation and biggest in the state and I think 3rd in the Midwest.He has several stores.There is another John Deere dealer nearby and between the two they pretty much have this area wraped up.I go 80 miles away because that dealer loves to drop John Deere products off in this area just to tick off the fat cats.Im just the horses rear end type to like to see the local guy squirm.Maybe next time he will remember I want the best deal.Good leason for him.

Why did I go with the Honda on the pressure washer?Because the other choice was a Briggs Quantum and I have struugled getting those started in the past.I thought I would see how I liked a Honda.I must admit a Kawasaki is nice.

How many McCormicks did I see today?None I seen one since they came out and that was at a Fair.This is John Deere country followed by the other brand Case IH.The Case IH dealer has this area wraped up to with several stores.There is a NewHolland dealer near by.I do not see how he stays in business.I think he might have sold one new tractor last year.He had a good year.I think the CaseIH dealer can get you a McCormick tractor but I dought he has ever seen one him self up close and personal?He also sells Kubota.CUT models for mowing and a bucket maybe a bachoe.What would you do with one of those in the farm fields around here? Even there biggest Kubota is a tinker toy when it comes to farm tractors

Construction equipment?Well that stuff is mostly leased.Very few road construction outfits or any other kind owns that stuff.Its leased and Cat pretty much has that wrapped up to.I see Hitachi excavators from time to time.John Deere road graders are popular.Steam rollers and that kind of stuff seems to be old stuff I seen 20 years ago.Havent you heard we have the worst roads here in Illinois.We have to seasons winter and road construction.But nothing ever gets done and when it does they start all over.They use black silly puddy to fill in the cracks.

Yes those satisfied Honda and Toyota owners do tell there neighbors and the cycle goes on.Most of them live in the new cookie cutter houses.That do not have any furniture in them.Because there in deght up to there eye balls.Rows and rows and rows of those houses.Thats where most of the construction is in Illinois.New houses and they are not all Dr's and lawyer either.But latley I see a lot of foreclosures in the news papers every week.I use to see a few a year.But now its atleast a half a dozen each and every week.So the domino affect has already began.As any fool could see was going to happen.If they have a import in there drive way.They did it to there self.If they have a $50'000 truck to drive to work.Its there own fault.If they drive a basic Chevrolet or Buick I then can feel for them.But there still nuts for building a $300'000 dollar house to pay taxes on that will not make them one dollar.That what they get for keeping up with the Jones.

Archdean

"As any fool could see was going to happen.If they have a import in there drive way.They did it to there self.If they have a $50'000 truck to drive to work.Its there own fault.If they drive a basic Chevrolet or Buick I then can feel for them."

Nick, you never cease to amaze me with your innate ability to turn facts into so-much rhinoceros poop!

The fact that One JD dealer is now the largest because he bought out all the others (should read: not enough sales for competition dealers to stay in business) is a shrinking market not a growing one!!

Not surprising when your own State of Illinois has 26,976 farms showing a net loss of $13,898 , 2002 Census (Illinois did better than the rest of the US on average) As the number of farms/farmers decrease so do new equipment sales and therein is the impact on the big 3 truck producers that must increase market share (numbers) to stay in business let alone not lose share to the likes of Toyota /Kubota etc.

Dean

If you have time this is interesting to see where your state stands!!

Farm loss vs gains in 2002 Census

__________________
Dean

"Flashlights are tubular metal containers kept in a flight bag for the purpose of storing dead batteries."

Show Tractor 1940 Farmall B,
Kubota RTV900 WS, Kubota B7510 HST, LA302 FEL, B4672 BackHoe, LandPride RTA1050 Tiller, Kubota TG1860 W/54"deck....

Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less. - General Robert E. Lee