[Archdean]

This discussion has being ongoing for years!

1. Post your experiences here with or without passion. Let the reader decide!
2. Cost analysis for your particular situation!
3. Are you convinced or just caught up in the magic euphoria?
4. Have you seen the wear on internal engine components gear trains and etc. lubricated with Synthetics compared to like components that were lubricated with Dino counterparts with your own eyes or just echoing advertising?

To start the discussion this is a quote from a scientific publication!

"Synthetic oil will do nothing whatsoever to lessen auto
emissions, as compared to a high quality standard motor oil.
In any properly working motor, the oil never gets anywhere
near the combustion process, and it is combustion that
creates the emissions.

The main advantage of synthetic oil is that it is slower to
break down than normal oil, and therefore the time between
oil changes can be longer. Also, some of the chemical
breakdown that oils suffer from, is not the oil itself
breaking down, but their additives such as "viscosity index
improvers" degrading. Synthetic oils need less of these
additives, so they suffer less from their breakdown.

How often should you change the oil and filter if one uses
synthetic oil? You ALWAYS change according to the vehicle
manufacturer's recommendations in the owners manual. Since
each manufacturer has specific instructions, I cannot give
you a general answer. As a rule of thumb, it is often
considered safe to extend the oil change interval by 50% with
synthetic oil, but again, you do what the vehicle
manufacturers says to do!

As for the filter, it should be changed at the same interval
as when normal oil is used. The filter's job is to filter out
abrasive particles that mainly result from the combustion
process. The type of oil has little to do with the formation
of this particulate matter, so switching to a synthetic oil
will not do anything much to reduce amount of particulates
that the filter has to filter out.

Now, is synthetic oil worth it? Perhaps. Synthetic oils do
not protect the engine better than normal oils. They just
last longer. So if, for example, a synthetic oil lasted 50%
longer than a high quality normal oil, and cost only 30% more,
then I would say it would be worth it in that case. However,
often, this kind of analysis shows synthetic oil cost more in
the long run."

As always I'm eager to here what you fellows think!!

[mark777]

I use synthetics in my car and truck (Mobil 1) and use dino in the tractors. My reasoning for synthetics are fear of dry start ups and engine wear. I'm less concerned about emissions then long term wear...And the dino in the tractors is because I don't want synthetic oil to clean away too much or damage older seals. So my vote is "Yes, in some things".

Mark

[HarryG]

I use synthetic in whatever I buy new if possible. If its a used piece of equipment, I do as mark 777 does and use conventional (dino) oil. I do have an ATV and use conventional (dino) in that as it has a fluid clutch and they recommend conventional oil.
I guess its a matter of choice.

[Archdean]

Just in case you really want to impress your friends and neighbors!!



Here

[Eddinberry]

I run the Synthetics in the Jeep, Both Motorcycles, and Lawnmower.

I like the constant viscosity advantages in the synthetics, and the cold start issue advantages in the Jeep.

I change the oil at 4,000 miles instead of 3,000.

In the Bikes, because the Transmission and engine share the oil as a lube, the synthetics have distinct advantages.

Better shifting is one of them and you can feel it.

Normally Dino oil starts to break down in the bikes at around 1,500 miles and shifting starts getting a bit "Notchy".

With synthetic (Motul or Mobil-1 bike oil) oil the shifting stays butter smooth for 2,000 miles when I change the stuff regardless if it is early or not.

The stuff drained from the bikes goes into the lawn Mower.
18hp Brigs Gold from Yard man and is run untill the next change from the bikes.

I ain't the biggest fan of that Mower, so no. I have no guilt.


I run Rotella in the Tractors and harvester.
It gets changed every Spring,Fall, and 150 hours. Regardless.

Yeah it's an early schedule, but it may be weeks between use of one of the Tractors, and the Harvester gets used for 4 weeks out of the year then stored.

I never store with used oil in the crankcase.
All those acids from combustion ain't good for things.

Why not synthetic on the farm gear?

Cost.
I can change out Dino oil before it starts breaking down twice for the same cost of stretching things with Synthetics, and the contaminants are removed with the oil change.

I dunno if I am right or wrong in this, but the corrosive contaminants that are not filtered out, are more of a threat than some slight breakdown in the molecular chain is to wear.

It's working for me so far.

Merry Christmas!!!
Eddiberry

P.S.

Almost forgot.
The extra oil from the Bikes that dosn't go into the Mower, goes into a couple of oil cans and it's used for lubing hinges,nuts& Bolts etc, and general farm lube.

[Bruceman]

Alright, synthetic oil is mammade, meaning that every molecule is the exact same size, therfore, synthetic oil exerts the same amount of pressure on the internal bearings, whereas, conventional oil does not. This, in turn extends amount of time before a rebuild is neccessary.

Synthetic oil does last a lot longer before breakdown than conventional oil, however, it still gets dirty, just like conventional oil. Dirty oil equals, scratches, more friction and uneven bearing pressure.

Is synthetic oil worth it? Not in my book.

Synthetic oil Costs ALOT more than conventional oil, and long term benefits will only be recognized if you're going to keep the car till the wheels fall off.

If you want to help your car without flattening the ol' wallet, buy a better oil filter.

Bruce~

[Archdean]

Bingo... In a nutshell Synthetic oils are noticeably beneficial when used in a system that is not subject to contamination by the combustion process IE. in hydraulic systems (flows better hence a smoother quicker response!!)

To claim (pretend) that you don't have to change your engine oil as often as you would with with Dino oil is to say that you are perfectly content to let your engine cope with the naturally occurring acids in either method that will eventually ruin it!! UNLESS you change it as you would normally do for Dino oil!! Savings = NONE!

For the purposes of this discussion it will suffice to say that the most important ingredients in any lubricant are the additive packages that are added at the point of manufacture,, You get what you pay for!!

No matter what filter you use nor how much you pay for it will not naturalize the destructive acids produced by the combustion process!! Although some are much better than others in filtering particles!!

[red]

i use mobil 1 in my cars -read about it in popular mechanics ages ago. also read in a couple of car magazines about the racers how amazed they were when they started using it in their car & how they noticed almost no wear @ teardown (which they do after every race) cost is the same -went from 3k to 5k for changes. still less than manufacturers recommendation. dino for tractor

[Morgan]

Change the filter out and keep running the same synthetic oil until the next oil change. Thats what we do at work it makes the synthetic oil last longer and keeps it cleaner. It may not be the RIGHT thing to do or maybe it is, it depends on who you ask.

[Bill Kapaun]

I like it for my bicycle!

[bushy65]

I have been a qualified Diesel fitter for over twenty years and i have seen both the good and bad sides of synthetic oils. I believe that they have very specific applications and should not replace Mineral based oils in every instance, indeed some machines fail if synthetics are used over mineral types.
However, if you start a machine on either type of oil then i believe that you should stick to it through out its entire service life as they wear to suit the oils used.

[Live Oak]

With the price of synthetic oils lately, first off I am glad I bought a 55 gallon drum of John Deere 15W-40 Plust 50 which is a synthetic blend and with the outrageously high prices of synthetic, I am looking at using conventional oil at least for summer use as it is less than half the cost in some cases.

[donmopar]

the real advantage to they synthetic is being able to use a lighter weight which will net you better fuel economy and yes it does last longer the down side is if your engine is not built for it or is of a design that does dirty up the oil quickly. in a modern car with tight tolerances and good seals with a very efficient fuel injection system the oil will work great but I personally beleive that in older tractors or diesels that dirty up the oil the oil needs to be changed sooner just to get rid of contaminates even though the oil has not broken down any.

[magfarm]

I know this thread has not been active for a while but I would like to add my two cents, for whatever it's worth. I also apologize in advance for the length of the post because this is something I am very interested in.

The original article posted seems to be mostly opinion with nothing much to back those opinions up with.

"Synthetic oil will do nothing whatsoever to lessen auto
emissions, as compared to a high quality standard motor oil.
In any properly working motor, the oil never gets anywhere
near the combustion process, and it is combustion that
creates the emissions.

That's not entirely true. Oxidation is the most important form of chemical breakdown of a motor oil and its additives. The chemicals in a motor oil are continuously reacting with oxygen inside an engine. The effects of oxidation due to this reaction as well as the by-products of combustion produce very acidic compounds inside an engine. These acidic compounds cause corrosion of internal engine components, deposits, changes in oil viscosity, varnish, sludge and other insoluble oxidation products that can cause a performance and durability degradation of your engine over a period of time.

As an engine goes through multiple heating and cooling cycles this sludge can harden and cause other problems such as restricted passageways and decreased component tolerances. Varnish can cause such things as piston ring and valve sticking. The deposits can also affect heat transfer from pistons to cylinder and in extreme cases can cause seizure of the piston in the cylinder. Pistons also have oil return slots machined into them that can become plugged and result in increased oil consumption and additional deposits created on top of the deposits that are already there. Deposits also form on the tops of pistons which over a period of time can cause pre-ignition, increased fuel octane requirements, detonation/pinging and increased exhaust hydrocarbon emissions and an overall destructive effect on the engines internal parts. Deposits also form inside valve covers, timing gear covers, oil pump pickup screens, oil filters and oil passageways.

How often should you change the oil and filter if one uses
synthetic oil? You ALWAYS change according to the vehicle
manufacturer's recommendations in the owners manual.

Again, this is one person's opinion because he doesn't give any valid reasons as to why.

As for the filter, it should be changed at the same interval
as when normal oil is used.

This is about the only thing the author of this article got correct. Filtration (both oil & air) is just as, if not more, important than the type of oil used. The particle size range in which 60% of engine wear occurs is in the 5 to 20 micron range. You want to be cautious of oil filters advertising a certain micron rating unless it also specifically states what efficiency it achieves at that micron size or shows a graph indicating the efficiency at various micron sizes. Bypass filtration will clean the oil much more, down to 2 micron particle size, allowing even longer extended drain intervals in conjunction with oil analysis.

Synthetic oils do not protect the engine better than normal oils.

Again, this is also not true. A few basic key functions of a motor oil is to reduce friction under all extremes of operating condition, prevent corrosion of internal engine components and provide for cooling via transfer of heat.

When using a petroleum oil, under certain conditions, the lubricant film can be either too thin, thus allowing metal-to-metal contact, or too viscous which causes high internal friction within the layers of the oil. The key is to select an oil that is thin enough to have a low internal friction coefficient, yet still high enough to effectively separate two metal surfaces under all operational conditions and prevent excessive wear and heat generation. The facts prove that synthetic lubrication achieves both of these objectives while with petroleum oil there can be a compromise. The uniform molecular structure of synthetic lubricants allow it to flow freely for low internal friction, yet still effectively separate two metal-to-metal contact surfaces under normal and extreme
operating conditions and significantly reduce internal wear.

It is also a myth that synthetic oils cause engine seals to leak. Synthetics absolutely do not cause seals to leak, they simply may only possibly reveal an existing leak path and a seal that has failed and is in need of mechanical replacement. Either the seal lip is worn down or the seal is hardened and cracked from old age, heat and ozone. If you have an older higher mileage engine that has been running petroleum oil for its entire life, and it also leaks, for example around the rear-main oil seal, then chances are it may leak the same or possibly more with synthetic oil. Synthetic oil is naturally cleansing and high detergent and will remove internal engine sludge and varnish deposits, but synthetic
oil does not cause leaks. This is commonly referred to as a false seal.

To claim (pretend) that you don't have to change your engine oil as often as you would with with Dino oil is to say that you are perfectly content to let your engine cope with the naturally occurring acids in either method that will eventually ruin it!! UNLESS you change it as you would normally do for Dino oil!! Savings = NONE!

It's the synthetic base stock along with the proper additive mixture allows synthetic oils to last much longer than their dino counterparts.

Pretend? I can't speak for other manufacturers but AMSOIL does not pretend. Their claims of better fuel ecomony, lower emissions, lower operating temperatures, more efficiency, longer engine or equipment life and total cost savings are based on 37+ years of research, lab and road tests along with thousands of customer testimonials. Sorry about the commercial but I couldn't let that one go.

Again, sorry for the long post, I could go on and on. Please flame away, all I ask is you keep an open mind about the subject.

[Fordfarm]

Well - even though this is an old thread - I'll put my2¢ in the mix.
I use old Dinobecause the fake stuff is just too expensive. I've used nothing but Walmart Super Tech in everything I own for YEARS. I've had ZERO problems with ANYTHING. I finally traded my 1997 F-150 in at over 350,000 miles - most of that pulling a trailer. I'd still have it if it would have been a 4x4. The guy who has it now has put another 60,000 on it, and he uses Wally oil.

With synthetic, I'd have bought the truck TWICE just in oil. I can change my oil almost 4 times with SuperTech oil, to ONCE with Mobile One. Amsoil is not real common around here, but I sure if it was, it would be way outta MY price range......

[tractorguy3]

I like the plain oil standard motor oil the best. I've tried synthetics before, but I wasn't impressed.

[flman]

I use synthetic for sludge free engines, have not used it long enough to prove longevity, but that is usually a maintenance issue. I use Amsoil for most applications.

[snowman17]

if synthetic lasts longer, then more dirt would build up in it and wear the engine more, that is with no filter. I do not have a preference, but I am adamant about regular maintenance. I used to think it was not necessary to change the oil/filters or lube fittings, but I almost ruined my mower engine that way. With regular maintenance, it runs better than when I bought it.

[IH farm boy]

i started using , Rotella t sinthetic 5-40 especially in my lawn tractors it hold up to the heat of the air cooled engines, my 1320 i change once a year and i mow over two acres once a weeks and it dosnt burn a drop and stays so clean, my craftsman i change every two years but i dont put a lot of hours on it . i also run it in my truck and picked up 2 miles to the gallon , i use Amzoil in all my two stoke stuff my quad , lawn boy , chainsaws and weed wacker. i ran it in my car and it got great gas milage , i changed the filter at 3,000 and the oil at 12,000 and it would only burn half a quart. i picked up 2 miles to the gallon in the winter and 3 in the summer. Rotella is awsome. they say it is better for flat tappet engines because of the high zinc content compared to others.

[briggs]

i use SAE 30 and nothing else