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Ingersoll444 · 11-25-2003, 04:44 AM

Well, I am planing on building a 30x40 workshop in the coming years. This will be for working on, and storing all of my cars, tractors, and other stuff that is just laying around. What would be better? A pole barn, or a frame garage? Cost is a BIG factor, but also this will be built by me, so ease of building is also. Now with a pole barn, can a pourd floor be added at a later time? Also how are they for keeping mice etc out? The garage would cost a little more, and would have to do the floor right off, but I think it would be easyer for me to build. Oh and to keep the neaburs, and the wife happy, looks will also come into play.

I have the perfict place set aside for it already, and a 30x40 will fit PERFICT! Just fitting inside my 50' setbacks, my drive, and a small hill.

slipshod · 11-25-2003, 06:05 AM

The floor of a pole barn can be done at anytime.It has no bearing on the stucture, Mice will get in any building if there is a way.

Argee · 11-25-2003, 06:44 AM

A pole barn is going to be the most economical to build. Remember, think anything divisible by 3, because most pole barn metal comes in 3' widths. You'll have less cutting and waste if you go that route. Instead of 30 x 40 make it 30 x 39 or 30 x 42. If you decide to go that route, I'll go into greater detail on how to lay it out.

dougand3 · 11-25-2003, 04:21 PM

I thought about using that 3' wide sheetmetal for a shed roof. It was cheap @ 49 cents/sqft. How do you space your trusses? 18"?

slipshod · 11-25-2003, 05:00 PM

Don't forget ,your sheets overlap

dougand3 · 11-25-2003, 05:39 PM

ah yes, slipshod....overlap is a good thing.

Argee · 11-26-2003, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dougand3
I thought about using that 3' wide sheetmetal for a shed roof. It was cheap @ 49 cents/sqft. How do you space your trusses? 18"?

Trusses are usually spaced at 24" OC. Rafters at 16" OC. Trusses with heavier bottom chords can be spaced at 48" OC. You need to look at what load the roof is going to take. Most snow is going to slide off a steel roof, unless you build it under a canopy of trees where it gets no sun, then it can get dangerous.

olds · 11-29-2003, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Argee
A pole barn is going to be the most economical to build. Remember, think anything divisible by 3, because most pole barn metal comes in 3' widths. You'll have less cutting and waste if you go that route. Instead of 30 x 40 make it 30 x 39 or 30 x 42. If you decide to go that route, I'll go into greater detail on how to lay it out.

Ok, Argee go into more detail! I am building my new pole barn workshop in the spring. Any volunteers???

Andy

Ingersoll444 · 11-30-2003, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by admin
Ok, Argee go into more detail! I am building my new pole barn workshop in the spring. Any volunteers???

Andy

Sorry Andy, your a little far away for me to help. But I am with you on wanting more details.

BTW where mine is going it is under trees. And we get a fair bit of snow here, so roof streingh is important. So what is better for a DIYS'r? trusses, or rafters. Pro with rafters is they are a lot lighter, cons it will take a lot longer to build. Pro with truses is it is fast. One or two days your done, but would realy need a lift to get a 30' one up there. Any other pro's, and cons?

OK lets realy open up a can of worms. What to use for the posts???

Some people use poles, like a phone pole, some people use a post like a 6x6, and some people use a made up post of two by nailed, or bolted together. Any insite??

olds · 11-30-2003, 10:19 AM

Well...I can calculate exact lumber engineering loads and force distribution across beams/posts very well. My engineering background has helped me understand and support this side of the equation (pun) I really like using 6x6 posts because they are easy to place and of course nailed sides on etc (including joist hangers etc) --- but I need some design ideas and best size for optimum use of lumber/sheeting/etc. Let's work together and make an awesome TF.COM "official building plans" --- we can all sign them and sell em...Any architects, lawyers here to stamp these feasible?

HAHA

Andy

Ingersoll444 · 11-30-2003, 11:53 AM

Sounds good Andy, but one problem. To have a structor strong enough to support the snow load us northern people get, Yours would be WAY overbuilt I would think. But I guess to strong, than not strong enough.

Argee · 11-30-2003, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by admin
Ok, Argee go into more detail! I am building my new pole barn workshop in the spring. Any volunteers???

Andy

I'll post a detailed "how to" in the AM. I had a pretty full weekend with work and visiting with my daughter. Now I'm to tuckered out to think straight.

Argee · 12-01-2003, 08:38 AM

Pole buildings by their inherant design are a monocoque construction. That is, they are a type of construction where the outer shell carries the major stress. The poles, trusses, purlins and girts all play a supporting role, but it's the steel that ties all other components together that brings it to a final rigid conclusion.

Standard ribbed pole barn steel in most cases comes 3' in width by whatever length you request. It is relatively easy to cut across the width of the steel (crosscut) with standard issue snips, but extremely difficult to cut the length (rip) without special and expensive power tools, ie power nibblers and shears.

That being said, it is easier to design your building around the width of the steel rather than making the steel fit your building!

All dimensional lumber has its length determined so that it lays out to accept standard 8' plywood with minimal waste. That's why most lumber stores carry 2x material in 8, 12,16 and 24 foot lengths. Now enters the pole barn with 3' steel that rejects 1/2 of the dimensional lumbers lengths. Therein lies the conundrum, how to address both of these issues with a minimal of waste. The best answer is to design a building width and length that is divisible by both 3 and 8. The ideal building would be 24' x 24' or 24' x 48'. But that doesn't always lend itself to fit the footprint, the area available or the budget you have for the building. The next best solution is to design a building where the width and length are divisible by 3. Because steel costs considerably more than dimensional lumber, it is not only economically feasible to have the ends of a few 2x's laying around at the end of a job than strips of steel, but also prudent because you can utilize, in other projects, the 2x cut offs more readily than you can the strips of steel.

That's my detailed answer on why you should consider a building that minimizes the cutting of steel. I base that answer on my experience of designing and building many pole buildings professionally. If you would like further detail in the layout and construction, I would be glad to offer it.

olds · 12-01-2003, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Argee
Pole buildings by their inherant design are a monocoque construction. That is, they are a type of construction where the outer shell carries the major stress. The poles, trusses, purlins and girts all play a supporting role, but it's the steel that ties all other components together that brings it to a final rigid conclusion.

Standard ribbed pole barn steel in most cases comes 3' in width by whatever length you request. It is relatively easy to cut across the width of the steel (crosscut) with standard issue snips, but extremely difficult to cut the length (rip) without special and expensive power tools, ie power nibblers and shears.

That being said, it is easier to design your building around the width of the steel rather than making the steel fit your building!

All dimensional lumber has its length determined so that it lays out to accept standard 8' plywood with minimal waste. That's why most lumber stores carry 2x material in 8, 12,16 and 24 foot lengths. Now enters the pole barn with 3' steel that rejects 1/2 of the dimensional lumbers lengths. Therein lies the conundrum, how to address both of these issues with a minimal of waste. The best answer is to design a building width and length that is divisible by both 3 and 8. The ideal building would be 24' x 24' or 24' x 48'. But that doesn't always lend itself to fit the footprint, the area available or the budget you have for the building. The next best solution is to design a building where the width and length are divisible by 3. Because steel costs considerably more than dimensional lumber, it is not only economically feasible to have the ends of a few 2x's laying around at the end of a job than strips of steel, but also prudent because you can utilize, in other projects, the 2x cut offs more readily than you can the strips of steel.

That's my detailed answer on why you should consider a building that minimizes the cutting of steel. I base that answer on my experience of designing and building many pole buildings professionally. If you would like further detail in the layout and construction, I would be glad to offer it.

Monocoque --- yes!

--- To my knowledge this unibody design was first used in aircraft in the 30s --- unfortunately I was leaning towards using 100% lumber design (unless someone has a bunch of steel posts, i-beams & girders for me to take off their hands) So what is the optimum design size for lumber workshop construction, Argee? 24x48?

Thanks for the info --- I will be asking more soon!

Andy

Argee · 12-01-2003, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by admin
Monocoque --- yes! --- To my knowledge this unibody design was first used in aircraft in the 30s --- unfortunately I was leaning towards using 100% lumber design (unless someone has a bunch of steel posts, i-beams & girders for me to take off their hands) So what is the optimum design size for lumber workshop construction, Argee? 24x48?

When I speak of pole barn construction, the only steel other than the fasteners is the outer shell. All posts, girts and trusses are of wood construction. The steel outer shell offers longevity and "0" maintenance.

The optimum design is based on your projected use of the facility. I personally have a 32' x 48' stick built shop with vinyl siding. It is split lengthwise with an insulated parting wall giving me two 16 x 48 facilities. One side is insulated and heated and further subdivided into two facilities, one for my woodworking shop and one for future licensed processing of animals or fruits. The unheated side is used for equipment repair and storage of all my "stuff".

Ingersoll444 · 12-01-2003, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Argee

That's my detailed answer on why you should consider a building that minimizes the cutting of steel. I base that answer on my experience of designing and building many pole buildings professionally. If you would like further detail in the layout and construction, I would be glad to offer it.

Details details.

How about long term? Under normal use, and maintance what will last longer, pole, or frame??

olds · 12-01-2003, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ingersoll444
Details details.

How about long term? Under normal use, and maintance what will last longer, pole, or frame??

I really like the strength and simplicity of the pole structure. If built correctly with proper load considerations, metal bracing & support hardware and beam/span load calculations, it should last a very long time. Frame has its place (house) --- if you want to pour a nice new slab in advance lay down your rebar and anchors for bottom-plates and build lots of walls etc, then go with the frame. But in my opinion for cost-savings and ease of build, I like the pole barn (unibody) design for my barn/workshop --- you can always pour the slab after since the posts are set in place in advance. YMMV (your mileage may vary)

Andy

Argee · 12-02-2003, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by admin
I really like the strength and simplicity of the pole structure. If built correctly with proper load considerations, metal bracing & support hardware and beam/span load calculations, it should last a very long time. Frame has its place (house) --- if you want to pour a nice new slab in advance lay down your rebar and anchors for bottom-plates and build lots of walls etc, then go with the frame. But in my opinion for cost-savings and ease of build, I like the pole barn (unibody) design for my barn/workshop --- you can always pour the slab after since the posts are set in place in advance. YMMV (your mileage may vary)

Andy

Yeah! What he said....

Framing lends itself well to finished interior walls. If you want to finish interior walls on a pole structure, then your adding additional material and labor.

Ingersoll444 · 12-02-2003, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Argee
Yeah! What he said....

Framing lends itself well to finished interior walls. If you want to finish interior walls on a pole structure, then your adding additional material and labor.

hey I did not think of that. I was kinda planing on having inside walls. hmmm

olds · 12-02-2003, 12:18 PM

You can still have interior walls with pole construction (of course) -- It is just a different construction process -----

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