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**Country Boy** · 12-04-2011, 03:49 PM

Here on the farm we have an old wood-frame pole shed (poles are set on a foundation wall) that was built in 1950. I have been slowly converting it into a shop, and I have run into a decision that I have been thinking on for the last couple years. It is a 26'x60' shed with four "bays" between the poles. The first bay doesn't have a door because my great grandpa wanted to make it into a shop area. The next three bays do have sliding doors. I want to install overhead doors so they actually seal for heating, but I really don't want to spend a ton of money on this project. My thought was to close off the outer two bay doors and just have the one bay with doors. I would then install a overhead door there. The other two bay doorways would be boarded up with a small access door for someone to walk through. In order to do this, I'd have to raise up two of the cross beams in the shed to make them at least as high as the doorway. They currently are about 2' down from the top of the doorway from front to back of the shed. Does this sound do-able? I had though to replace one of the beams with a steel I-beam so I could run a trolley and chain hoist along it (have to support it with steel poles at each end).

So, does this sound like a good idea, or would I be better off biting the bullet and buying three 13'x15' overheads? I was told they would cost about $12-1500 a piece. If I move the beams up, I can drive in the one door and run the equipment the long way down the shed rather than have it front to back. I have it like this currently with the manure spreader that I am rebuilding, and it is working out very well that way. That's what really gave me the idea to permanently close off the outer two doors. The very end bay will be cemented (still gravel there yet) and used for storage.

Let's hear your opinions!

Halifax · 12-04-2011, 06:20 PM

I'd put the door on the end and close in the bays. Only problem would be playing shuffle inside with the equipment.

**Country Boy** · 12-04-2011, 09:04 PM

I'll try to get pics of it tomorrow night if possible. I'm thinking of doing the middle door as the one to save because with the one end used for storage, and the other end as the shop, the middle door would be the most convenient. The pics should make things a bit clearer.

**tractor beam** · 12-04-2011, 09:44 PM

Anything is doable!

You know?......... After reading your idea, you could add more doors later after you win the lotto too! Pictures would be a great help, but from the sounds of it, it can be done. I'll wait for the pictures before I start suggesting.

Cublover · 12-05-2011, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Country Boy

Here on the farm we have an old wood-frame pole shed (poles are set on a foundation wall) that was built in 1950. I have been slowly converting it into a shop, and I have run into a decision that I have been thinking on for the last couple years. It is a 26'x60' shed with four "bays" between the poles. The first bay doesn't have a door because my great grandpa wanted to make it into a shop area. The next three bays do have sliding doors. I want to install overhead doors so they actually seal for heating, but I really don't want to spend a ton of money on this project. My thought was to close off the outer two bay doors and just have the one bay with doors. I would then install a overhead door there. The other two bay doorways would be boarded up with a small access door for someone to walk through. In order to do this, I'd have to raise up two of the cross beams in the shed to make them at least as high as the doorway. They currently are about 2' down from the top of the doorway from front to back of the shed. Does this sound do-able? I had though to replace one of the beams with a steel I-beam so I could run a trolley and chain hoist along it (have to support it with steel poles at each end).

So, does this sound like a good idea, or would I be better off biting the bullet and buying three 13'x15' overheads? I was told they would cost about $12-1500 a piece. If I move the beams up, I can drive in the one door and run the equipment the long way down the shed rather than have it front to back. I have it like this currently with the manure spreader that I am rebuilding, and it is working out very well that way. That's what really gave me the idea to permanently close off the outer two doors. The very end bay will be cemented (still gravel there yet) and used for storage.

Let's hear your opinions!

I would insulate the outer doors and leave them alone. Replace the middle doors with what you want.
The insulation that I would use would be 'sheet' insulation , similar to what roofers use, and I would screw it on, so I could pull it off and have the use of the doors in the warm months.
I build 'temporary' walls in Dec. and take them down in the spring. Build a strong wall, lean it up to where it's needed, put in 6 or 9 screws. Get what I'm saying here?
Temporary solution to a seasonal problem.
Why 'box' yourself in when winter is only 3-4 months?

We just have to survive those months. Screw the insulation up in front of equipment that you won't need till April, then spend the winter making it ready to go to work then.

**Country Boy** · 12-06-2011, 08:27 AM

I don't know about Maryland, but here it normally gets to 30 and 40 below zero in winter, so roofer's insulation probably won't do much on those doors. I have 6" of insulation in the walls already and plan to put 6" in the rafters as well. My intent is to have a permanent heat source out there keeping it warm all winter. In order to do that, I'll need pretty good insulation all around to keep the heat in. I have a propane furnace and a forced air blower assembly that I will be installing in the loft to blow heated air all over the shop. I also have that wood stove I plan to use when I work out there all day.

Cublover · 12-06-2011, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Country Boy

I don't know about Maryland, but here it normally gets to 30 and 40 below zero in winter, so roofer's insulation probably won't do much on those doors. I have 6" of insulation in the walls already and plan to put 6" in the rafters as well. My intent is to have a permanent heat source out there keeping it warm all winter. In order to do that, I'll need pretty good insulation all around to keep the heat in. I have a propane furnace and a forced air blower assembly that I will be installing in the loft to blow heated air all over the shop. I also have that wood stove I plan to use when I work out there all day.

We get to -10 once in a while. Usually stay at 0 to +15 range.
I have some styrofoam sheets in one shop rated at r-34. It does real well.
I gave it several coats of latex paint to try to slow down the 'burn' factor.
26X60 at those temps is going to take a LOT of heat!

**Country Boy** · 12-06-2011, 09:17 PM

Tell me about it. On those cold days last winter I had my 250,000BTU propane heater running and my 160,000BTU kerosene heater running (on diesel fuel), and it got to maybe 50 in there. Those doors simply lose a ton of heat because they don't even come close to sealing.

**Country Boy** · 12-07-2011, 07:55 PM

Okay, some pics. Please forgive the messy shop. I plan to have the spreader done in the next few days so I can finally get it cleaned out.

Outside of the shed facing south. The doors were installed on the north side of the shed, which really sucks in winter as the wind is always from the northwest.

Inside of the shed showing the three doorways and the beams that would have to be raised.

My plan was to board up the east and west doors, and have the overhead door in the middle. The west door in the picture above is behind my 766. Each doorway has two sliding doors.

Cublover · 12-07-2011, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Country Boy

Okay, some pics. Please forgive the messy shop. I plan to have the spreader done in the next few days so I can finally get it cleaned out.

Outside of the shed facing south. The doors were installed on the north side of the shed, which really sucks in winter as the wind is always from the northwest.

Inside of the shed showing the three doorways and the beams that would have to be raised.

My plan was to board up the east and west doors, and have the overhead door in the middle. The west door in the picture above is behind my 766. Each doorway has two sliding doors.

I still say build a temporary wall inside the doors and seal it that way. Staple plastic to the inside of the doors then build walls with R factor as high as is available. In the spring, open everything again.

**Country Boy** · 12-08-2011, 09:10 PM

I don't know. I may try that, but it just seems like a heck of a lot work and hassle. Lifting the beams would give me a lot more flexibility in how I can maneuver equipment in the shop, and if I do that, the extra doors become unnecessary. I planned on cementing a 15x20' slab outside the middle door as an area to work outside if needed (a couple things are too tall to get in the doors). If I board it up, I would also put a small utility door in the west most doorway to allow someone to enter and exit the shop without having to open one of the big doors.

Cublover · 12-08-2011, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Country Boy

I don't know. I may try that, but it just seems like a heck of a lot work and hassle. Lifting the beams would give me a lot more flexibility in how I can maneuver equipment in the shop, and if I do that, the extra doors become unnecessary. I planned on cementing a 15x20' slab outside the middle door as an area to work outside if needed (a couple things are too tall to get in the doors). If I board it up, I would also put a small utility door in the west most doorway to allow someone to enter and exit the shop without having to open one of the big doors.

I'm over 1000 miles away. I'm just trying to make you think a little. Think three times, act once.
It's not like I can drop by for a long look.

**tractor beam** · 12-08-2011, 11:09 PM

Kind of hard to tell from the pictures CB but are your rafters tied into a ridge beam at the peak? If so, then you can raise those beams easily and then run bracing from the center of your rafter span to the center of the beams your raising (stringers) On the other hand if you have no ridge beam of any form, able to support the roof in the absense of those stringers. then you could use a cable and a come along to hold the walls together as you raise the stringers. I'd tie the stringer ends in to your posts with some sheer straps to form a bulletproof connection. I'd still leave the post to rafter braces but move the shorter rafter to stringer braces towards the center a few feet.

**tractor beam** · 12-08-2011, 11:17 PM

CB here's what I'm talking about where the sheer straps are concerned. You can get them in many lengths but I'd go say.....36 inches long and run them around the back sides of the posts and onto the stringer tops. Those I've shown are pretty heavy guage but they offer them in lighter material or make your own if you have some 22 guage or heavier steel laying about. be sure to alternate you fasteners so that they don't go in the same wood grain. This just makes for a stronger connection..... something that always bothered me about the Simpson tie line of thinking!

**tractor beam** · 12-08-2011, 11:24 PM

You can nail blocks directly to your posts from the tops of your stringers where they are now, up to the bottom elevation of where you'd like your stringers to end up, which I figure you'd like to get them as high as possible, then you have something to support the stringers or you can use these A 35 profile ties that would really help make a good connection too!

**tractor beam** · 12-08-2011, 11:28 PM

When you go to close in your openings, I advise that you screw everything together from the framing to your sheathing, this way if ever you decide to open one of them up for some odd reason, it's just a matter of removing screws. You might even build sections of wall in 4 or 6 foot segments top to bottom balloon framing then attach these segments into your openings and then sheet them over using screws. Am I making sense?

**tractor beam** · 12-08-2011, 11:29 PM

By the way...... That manure spreader looks like something out of a showroom!

**Country Boy** · 12-11-2011, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cublover

I'm over 1000 miles away. I'm just trying to make you think a little. Think three times, act once.
It's not like I can drop by for a long look.

I do appreciate the thoughts you have given me, and I may put them to use this winter to see how it works. I find I have the best luck with projects when I get an objective viewpoint and I like to hash things out with folks and bounce ideas around. Thanks for your input!

Tractor beam, if I do close in the doors, using screws is an awesome idea. Easier to change in the future then. Anything I do to attach those beams to the uprights is better than they are now. It looks as though they just toe nailed the beams to the uprights and called it good.

I had two friends over today and we were working in the shop on my one friend's car. I was asking them about my idea, and they were talking about it with me for over two hours (while we were working!). One said I should close them in and then install a man-pass door and a small overhead in the west most section for bringing in smaller items like snowmobiles, atv's, lawnmowers, etc. Then I wouldn't have to open the big door in winter for small items. The other friend said to build a small lean-to on that side of the building where the current west doors are, and have it as a small office for a computer and keeping the shop manuals and stuff. It would also give me and entrance vestibule so you don't bring in a ton of cold air every time you come into the building. That would be something for the future, but I thought it was a good idea. I have been tossing around the idea of buying out the repair shop where I work in the future, and then working out of the shop here on the farm.

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