bripatch1

I am swaping engines, from 12.5 hp powerbuilt OHV Briggs and Stratton (which is
toast) to a 14.5Briggs and Stratton I/C Quiet OHV model 287707, on a 40 inch
Murray riding mower. Question... Can someone tell me what the two wire
connection to the carburator (Walbro 694918) which attaches to the carb float
cover is for ? Also, since my machine never had one to begin with, what effect
will it have if its not hooked up ? Regards, from Bripatch.

jhngardner367

Those wires are for the fuel shut-off solenoid.It shuts off fuel flow to the main jet,when the key is turned off.One wire will go to the wire that is hot,both on cranking,and running positions.Check it with a voltmeter,to find out which wire it is.The other wire,is a ground wire. You want power to the hot side,during crank over,and running,but not on the off position .If it's not hooked up,the carb won't get fuel.

__________________
" I'm busier than a one-legged cat in a sandbox!"

God gives only that which we can handle......."WHAT'S He drivin' that DUMPTRUCK for!!"

"I can't fix what ain't broke...you want I should break it?"

Country Boy

What he said.

I did a similar swap for a customer on a Scag mower, and I ended up having to install a new key switch that had a terminal that was hot during cranking and normal running. Just ran a wire from there to one of the wires on the fuel solenoid, and the other wire went to ground. Doesn't matter which one is power and which one is ground on the solenoid.

__________________
'76 IH 1066 Turbo Diesel, '73 IH 766 Diesel, '72 IH 574 Utility Gas, '56 IH 350 Utility Gas, '46 Farmall H Gas, '08 Bobcat Toolcat 5600 Turbo

Nobody puts that "C" word in front of MY International!

bripatch1

Thanks jhngardner 367 I was able to run power and ground wires to the fuel shut off solenoid as instructed and functionally tested the connections with a test light in each mode (crank, run and off). Engine will start on starter fluid but after a few seconds dies out. Gas tank is full, the inline fuel shutoff valve is open and fuel is available into the carb fitting. The float bowl however still appears to be empty.
I need to know a little more about that solenoid shutoff valve : maybe how it can be removed (and tested) and allow access to the carb float itself (and its float valve). Even better can it be set to remain open as its default power off
state? Maybe that's wishful thinking on my part. Regards from Bripatch.

dangeroustoys56

its an antifire solenoid - some sort of saftey device for keeping gas from overflowing into the combustion chamber - in my opinion theyre a hassle. Sometimes they stick ( probably from the cruddy gasoline today) and cause issues.

I have a 2003 murray with a 16.5HP single that has the solenoid, would stutter and sputter and diesel when shutoff - i snipped the tip of the solenoid off ( inside the carb) , put it back in the carb and it ran beautiful afterwards.

To combat the fuel leaking into the combustion chamber, i shut the manual fuel valve off, let it idle till the carb empties of fuel and it dies (less then 5 minutes) then put it in the shed.

You can try to free up the old solenoid or buy a new one - but a waste of money i think.

jhngardner367

Take the solenoid out,connect it to power,and see if it's actually moving,or if there's dirt/corrosion on it.When you put pwer to it,you should feel,and see it move,slightly.Push down on the plunger,to see if it's free.If it moves with your finger,but not with power,it's bad,and you can do 2 things:Replace it($50),or, as DT56 suggests,nip off the end,and use the manual shut off valve.

__________________
" I'm busier than a one-legged cat in a sandbox!"

God gives only that which we can handle......."WHAT'S He drivin' that DUMPTRUCK for!!"

"I can't fix what ain't broke...you want I should break it?"

bripatch1

Thanks, I cycled power through the fuel shutoff solenoid as instructed and based on a sluggish response I did nip off the plunger. While I had it open I also put in new carb float valve and checked to make sure it worked properly.
However, the problem remains the same. Engine will not run on its own, it will
start if boosted with starter fluid, run for a few seconds, then die. When engine is cranked over with its spark plug removed the compression blowing out of the plug hole is bone dry . The spark plug is also dry with no gasoline odor.
Taking into account that this motor had been in storage for more than a year,
(it had been working fine in its prior life) do you have any suggestions that I might try as a next step? thanks again, regards, from Bripatch.

jhngardner367

Ok,it sounds as if the main jet is clogged.The main jet is the one the solenoid closes off,so take the solenoid out,and use a thin strand of copper wire to clean it out,along with some carb spray,then put the solenoid in,and try to start it.If you take off the float bowl,and there's no fuel in it,check the inlet,on the carb,and the fuel pump,as well.just unhook the fuel line from the carb,pull the sparkplugs,and roll it over,while watching the fuel line.You should see it pumping out.If not replace the pump.

__________________
" I'm busier than a one-legged cat in a sandbox!"

God gives only that which we can handle......."WHAT'S He drivin' that DUMPTRUCK for!!"

"I can't fix what ain't broke...you want I should break it?"

dangeroustoys56

Singles dont usually have a fuel pump, unless the tank is in the back- itd almost be worth it to replace the fuel line and filter- while checking the tank for debris - if the plug is dry, then sounds like the carb is due for a good cleaning .

bripatch1

I did the carb cleaning (on the bench) thoroughly including the fine copper wire
trick which was suggested and finished up by blowing the main line in as well as
every thing else I could see out with compressed air (twice). No doubt it needed
it. It appears now to be working but the same problem still persists.(Engine runs
for a few seconds on starter fluid then dies). On another subject, I checked out
the motor when it came out of storage and removing the "OHV" valve cover
I found a small amount of old engine oil inside. I attributed to the fact that the
engine had been left laying in its side. Now I again find oil inside the cover (new
clean oil) and question whether there should be any oil in there at all. Is that
normal and to be expected, or is that another related problem?
Regards from Bripatch

jhngardner367

Oil in the valve cover area is normal. As for the fuel problem, remove the float bowl,and turn on the fuel,briefly,to see if any fuel flows past the inlet needle valve.If it does,lift up on the float and see how big the gap is ,beteen the top of the float,and the carb body,when the float stops the fuel flow.It should be about 3/16ths,to 1/4 inch.If it's more, the float could be shutting of the fuel flow,completely,and not letting ANY fuel in.If with the float bowl off,andthe float just hanging,you don't get any fuel flow,either the fuel inlet is plugged,or the fuel line or filter is.

__________________
" I'm busier than a one-legged cat in a sandbox!"

God gives only that which we can handle......."WHAT'S He drivin' that DUMPTRUCK for!!"

"I can't fix what ain't broke...you want I should break it?"

Country Boy

Where is the fuel tank located on this unit? Had a Poulan Pro mower in the shop that a guy did a B&S 20hp twin to Kohler Courage 19hp single swap and he didn't install a fuel pump on the single. The B&S had it mounted to the shroud but the Kohler didn't have it. I had to drill out the boss on the engine cover, install a barbed fitting, run line from it out to the new pump, and then hook the pump to the fuel lines. Ran great after that. Before it was doing just the same as you describe. Run for a very short time and then die. It could get some fuel because the tank (located under the seat) was full and the hose was just low enough that it could get a tiny amount of fuel to the carb.

__________________
'76 IH 1066 Turbo Diesel, '73 IH 766 Diesel, '72 IH 574 Utility Gas, '56 IH 350 Utility Gas, '46 Farmall H Gas, '08 Bobcat Toolcat 5600 Turbo

Nobody puts that "C" word in front of MY International!

dangeroustoys56

You want some oil in the OHV cover area - keeps the rockers working properly - no oil would indicate an issue.

Did you happen to check and see if the valves were opening/closing with the cover off?

Double check and make sure fuel is comming thru the fuel line to even get to the carb. I replaced the section of fuel line on my tractors after the filter to the carb with clear fuel rated line - then youre totally sure youre getting fuel to it.

bripatch1

Thanks again for your posts on this problem which still does not want to go away.
First, the fuel tank is located up front allowing gravity feed and that is working (too well). I have changed the float valve and, after cleaning with carb spray and compressed air again, watched the float work with the bowl cover off, fuel shut off valve off and then on. With fuel on we get fuel flow and I can stop it by lifting up float by hand. It appeared to be stable. OK, but put the cover back on, allowed the fuel to refill the float bowl and started the engine. It ran a bit then died leaving a puddle of gas in the air filter tray (and a flooded engine). The thing is with the engine off the float valve seems to be working but with it starting up the valve stays open.
The recommended dimension of between 3/16 to 1/4 inch is not what I found. Although difficult to measure accurately, I get more like 1/8 in. Is that enough? It might explain why I can stop the fuel flow by hand but its not happening in actual use. Its like the float valve is too short. I tried a different float as well. No luck. The float valve is new and to spec. The floats are used but they both " float". Maybe they're water logged? Any suggestions you might have would be appreciated.
Regards from bripatch1.

dangeroustoys56

At this point you might want to look into a carb rebuild kit and a new float - you mentioned it had sat on its side for a while- possible something warped out of shape.

Youll also want to dump the oil and put fresh oil in the motor- gas in the oil isnt good for the motor....

bripatch1

Thanks , Dtoys 56 , right now I'm thinking about changing the float valve seat
since if is worn it could require the float needle valve to travel up too far before
it shuts off the fuel. Question: How is the seat installed, any special tools required?
I have the B&S part # for it 640577 and it can be ordered separately. any
advise appreciated. Regards, Bripatch1

dangeroustoys56

Most float needle valves have a rubber tip- usually replacing that will stop leaking fuel ( rubber degrades a bit)- ive never changed the seat.

jhngardner367

Unless the seat is really bad,I'd listen to DT 56,and just replace the needle.

__________________
" I'm busier than a one-legged cat in a sandbox!"

God gives only that which we can handle......."WHAT'S He drivin' that DUMPTRUCK for!!"

"I can't fix what ain't broke...you want I should break it?"

bripatch1

At this point I have a new float needle valve sitting in a new float valve seat which I put in yesterday and tested today. Still no cure to carb flooding which
I should clarify is more like a blowback (fuel "spurts" up out into the ail filter tray) when the engine starts up briefly before it dies.
I also have verified OHV valves setting at .004 and find no fault there. Makes me wonder if I don't still have an internal blockage somewhere else in the carb and if I should be considering buying a new one. Any thoughts appreciated. Regards, Bripatch1

jhngardner367

Are you sure the timing key isn't damaged/sheared?All it takes is a mark big enough to catch a fingernail,and it alters the timing.That would cause hard starting,blowback,and even backfiring.

__________________
" I'm busier than a one-legged cat in a sandbox!"

God gives only that which we can handle......."WHAT'S He drivin' that DUMPTRUCK for!!"

"I can't fix what ain't broke...you want I should break it?"